New Everton Stadium

[muckers]

See my post above. Pretty much answers most of it. Dortmund have a dirty great big standing area that has 20k fans in it alone, they are also some of the most vocal supporters in Europe. Put them in ANY stadium in the world even WHAM's and they will still make it seem that they have a great atmosphere.

I have never said it doesn't help make it better on a computer model somewhere but we are talking marginal gains, what you can quantify for sure is how the view is for every supporter, see the difference between stadiums that have overlapping tiers?

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It’a just going round in circles now.

You believe overlapping tiers are better, professional stadium architects disagree.

There’s not much more that can be said.

P.a you’ve posted a photo from the top tier of the Millenium stadium which clearly doesn’t overlap the tier below.

 

[PhilM]

Well when a client asks an architect to create a stadium with the best atmosphere, the expert architects believe not having overlapping tiers is best.

I am inclined to believe the experts.

After all, the stadium with the best atmosphere in Europe - The Westfalenstadion, has no overlapping tiers.

Have you been to the Weserstadion? Yes, it doesn't have overlapping tiers, but I do not believe that that alone is the catalyst for the atmosphere it generates.

I've been to both, the Principality for the Six Nations and Dortmund, and the former can be an absolute cauldron like no other stadium I've experienced.

My point is that it's very easy to make false equivalences - correlation over causation; it's a simplistic argument to say one is better than the other without context.

For example, the Street End with its overlap at the back has a dynamic that was pretty unique when the sound reverberates, but it's also the closeness.

It’a just going round in circles now.

You believe overlapping tiers are better, professional stadium architects disagree.

There’s not much more that can be said.

P.a you’ve posted a photo from the top tier of the Millenium stadium which clearly doesn’t overlap the tier below.

View attachment 121494
The bottom tier has a slight overlap.

 

[The binman chronicles]

It’a just going round in circles now.

You believe overlapping tiers are better, professional stadium architects disagree.

There’s not much more that can be said.

P.a you’ve posted a photo from the top tier of the Millenium stadium which clearly doesn’t overlap the tier below.

The top tier doesn't overlap the 2nd tier, but the middle is almost completey over the lower tier in its entirety. That pulls the top tier to where the 2nd one would have started had it not been for the overlap. That is why the pitch is far closer even from higher up.

 

[Telford-Feb-85]

Did the single block steep home end get changed in the end for planning? I can't remember. Cheers.

 

[Mr. White]

I've long been a fan of stadium designs. This Reidsteel site is basic, but highly informative. Essentially, it argues that 'Form follows Function'.

It mentions overhangs... http://www.grandstands.net/terrace.html

 

[The binman chronicles]

Did the single block steep home end get changed in the end for planning? I can't remember. Cheers.

It's still in there much the same as it was cut from the original 15k to 13k but that was a fair while back now when the capacity was reduced from 60k to 53k.

 

[Telford-Feb-85]

Thanks, is there a quick link to an up to date image of how it will be now its revised. thanks

 

[Brisan123]

How’s it hanging lads ?

 

[Toffefc]

What everyone has got to remember is the roof on BMD is five floors lower than Spurs new stadium, so this should create an amazing atmosphere, what do you guys think, 53,000 fans five floors lower on the roof?

 

[arch stanton]

How’s it overhanging lads ?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Thanks, is there a quick link to an up to date image of how it will be now its revised. thanks

This is the closest known layout where you can see the whole stand. Obviously looks better in the virtual reality shots with EFC written to make it less bland but we haven't got a full interior shot yet in this style.

 

[tim gabbott]

Ffs just sing and don’t Booo would be a start

 

[Sadken]

If they knock it back we are all DOOMED

 

[Tom Hughes]

Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.

I don't disagree that a continuous bank under a roof provides the best format for a "singing section" to build and propogate chants and songs etc.... and we have missed out on having such a large body of support for years. However, there is another aspect of atmosphere that is the general noise and engagement of fans due to close proximity (and i don't mean just the first row). Many ex-players, commentators and writers on the subject regularly mention GP in the context of being the first to become the proverbial bear pit when the occasion or incident demanded it.... and this was very much to do with the fact the even those in the upper tiers were often close enough to see every bad tackle and expressions on players faces.... which meant that the place reacted and erupted readily. The problem we had was that the upper tiers, at just 18 rows are too small to themselves take fullest advantage of the roof acoustics.... if they were 30+ as for the end stands at the old WHL, then increased massing would've been better in terms of chanting etc. Also, what happens with overlapping tiers is that those on opposite rear rows are then that much closer together.... in 2 stands with cumulative overlaps of say 40rows (2×20), those opposing rear rows will be roughly 35 metres closer together. That's half a pitch width difference, and a dramatic increase in intimacy. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper to put a roof on. That upper tier is then also superior (and higher-value) in terms of viewing angle/aspect and viewing distance, than if it was set back... As I said, check out the difference in atmosphere at the millenium/principality stadium and Wembley. There is no comparison. There are many other similarly famous multi-tier bearpits.... Napoli and the Bombonera are just two I've seen in full voice and both were deafening.

As regards the experts... in Rod Sheard's and others books on stadium design it is states quite clearly that stadiums of over 40-45k start requiring overlapping tiers to keep all rows within optimum viewing distances.... beyond which, rear sections in corners soon go outside the optimum. On top of that, we know that our capacity at BMD has been limited because of site spacial constraints (which begs the question, why didnt we go with the original larger scheme which was in the E-W configuration?), so by definition this scheme was shouting out for some overlap to optimise capacity from the outset.

 

[Mrtallywacker]

Good Lord, came in here expecting wall to wall bedwetters due to the delay and everyone is fighting over overhanging tiers.
Classic GOT.

God bless you all.