New Everton Stadium

The binman chronicles said:
Twickenham, Principality, Fulham's new stand, the 4th tier in the SAF stand at OT is also overlapping. While you could say the majority don't do it because it leads to letterbox views at the back they could incorporated something along those lines and made the tickets a bit cheaper.
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Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.
 
muckers said:
Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.
Click to expand...

I've sat under the overhang at Twickenham and it is not small. We all know the benefits but at the same time loads of people have commented on Goodison being a difficult place to play because the fans are close and feel on top of you. The part about how it breaks up sounds and chants maybe true but to a very small degree. When those stadiums rock they rock regardless.

Also as for as I'm aware no one is saying massive overlaps should be there, it just would have been nice to have enough to invoke the spirit of Goodison and bring people closer to the action. All a bit pointless now discussing it as the design is done. We get what we get.
 
I hope we don't get overhangs. I firmly believe its beneficial to the atmosphere without them. I was always in the lower gwladys as a young man and it always felt like it was 2 separate entities and always believed that had it been one large terrace the atmosphere would have been 2nd to none in British football but with the overhang always thought it was slightly muted at times.
 

bluenorthwarrior said:
I would think this is positive in that if the govt had a look and thought 'not sure about this' they would formally call it in for full scrutiny and probably make that decision to do so relatively quickly. If on the other hand they think it looks fine but because it is so big they might need an extra couple of weeks this type of delay is more likely.

Caveat- I know nothing about the process.
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It's not uncommon for them to request more time for projects of this size and with Covid i think it was always going to happen and sounds like the council and club were expecting it too. Given the money this build is going generate, the jobs etc i honestly can't see there being any issues but hey.... you'd also like to think we live in a world where the government would put food in the mouths of starving children.
 
Sharpies volley said:
I hope we don't get overhangs. I firmly believe its beneficial to the atmosphere without them. I was always in the lower gwladys as a young man and it always felt like it was 2 separate entities and always believed that had it been one large terrace the atmosphere would have been 2nd to none in British football but with the overhang always thought it was slightly muted at times.
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Completely agree.

Which is why the vast majority of new stadiums don’t have it.
 
muckers said:
Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.
Click to expand...
Breaks in seating for whatever reason have a dampening effect, be they resulting from entry/exit points , wide gangways or overhangs. But at least an overhang puts the upper bank of supporters much closer to the pitch than would otherwise be the case. I don't see how a single tier stand can in any way serve to raise intimidation levels to the same extent. Remember that at BMD we'll have 5,000 non-vocal prawn sandwich eaters to compensate for.
 
mrb85 said:
Breaks in seating for whatever reason have a dampening effect, be they resulting from entry/exit points , wide gangways or overhangs. But at least an overhang puts the upper bank of supporters much closer to the pitch than would otherwise be the case. I don't see how a single tier stand can in any way serve to raise intimidation levels to the same extent. Remember that at BMD we'll have 5,000 non-vocal prawn sandwich eaters to compensate for.
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It would appear the worlds leading stadium architects disagree with you.
 

muckers said:
What stand built in recent years has overhanging tiers?

Spurs stadium doesn’t, the Emirates doesn’t, the Etihad doesn’t, Sunderland’s stadium of light doesn’t, Benfica Stadio Da Luz doesn’t, Liverpool’s hole punch stand doesn’t - neither will the Anfield road end expansion they’re planning, Old Trafford doesn’t, Sporting Lisbon new stadium doesn’t, Valencia’s half built stadium doesn’t, St James Park doesn’t, Stadio Della Roma wouldn’t have had, Juventus new stadium doesn’t. Borrusia Dortmund stadium doesn’t.
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There are overhangs at the Emirates, Spurs, Benfica, Etihad
muckers said:
Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.
Click to expand...
Most of the stadia you mentioned DO have overlapping tiers... there are many more modern stadia worldwide that do also. Yes, single tiers under a single roof can be unifying for home end (like the kop, south tribune etc) or "popular" side sections (like the Kippax, or similar at several grounds). The Emirates, Spurs, Benfica and the Etihad all have overlapping of the lower tier. If the corporate tier is minimal to non-existent, then that overlap and resultant capacity would be bigger.

There are several factors affecting atmosphere enhancement. Massing and proximity to, and shape of roof obviously can have a great effect. The Millennium stadium has overlapping tiers and generally has a far superior atmosphere than the much larger Wembley because a large proportion of the general admission capacity is elevated and enveloped by a vast closing roof.
 
Tom Hughes said:
I agree that this was a missed opportunity to both maximise capacity and to emulate the best qualities of GP. There could've been other forces dictating the chosen format such as actual site access/transport/capacity limitations, but that's not clear.

Many modern stands still incorporate overhanging tiers to get more capacity for footprint. This also increases the value of those upper tiers by allowing them to be brought closer to the action. The resultant shallower lower tiers will have to be slightly more set-back to achieve minimum c- values, but this needn't be as distant as say at the Emirates.

The north stand could've had that format to give 2 full home supporting ends with strong identies. One double decker and a larger version of the Gwladys St, with the South Stand just a larger version of the Park end. A shallow lower tier along one side stand could've housed the away fans with a paddock of safe standing to allow more "easily-achieved" away capacity for cup games. Keeping away fans low down and distant from any atmosphere enhancing roof-acoustics.
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I don’t get your logic here. Moving the lower tier back further from the pitch makes no sense whatsoever. The only thing that would bring the fans closer would be to bring the upper tier closer to the pitch, but the c-values (is that what they’re called) prevent that being an option.

The cross sections comparing the stands with other grounds showed our upper tier being almost identical to Tottenham’s, and they have overlapping tiers.
 
muckers said:
Twickenham has barely any overhang. Fulham’s new stand will a bit but that’s not through choice, they are literally right on the edge of the river.

Garry Reeves, who works for Populous, said in an article he wrote in how to design a stadium that produces a great atmosphere

“If you can't have one big tier, the next best thing is to have as little overlap between the two tiers as possible. According to Reeves: "Even if there's two tiers at both ends, if everyone can see each other that really does help. You have twice the number of people that are part of that atmospheric chant than you do otherwise."
What you don't want is what happens at stadiums like Stamford Bridge. Chelsea's loudest stands – the Matthew Harding and the Shed – are both divided into a lower and upper tier with quite a severe overlap. This makes it harder for chants and atmosphere to carry organically between the two tiers and reduces the overall noise from those ends. Both ends of Goodison Park suffer from the same thing, as does Crystal Palace's Holmesdale Road end, where those in the upper tier are separated from the black-clad 'Holmesdale Fanatics' and their flags in the bottom tier. Of course, those stands can still make plenty of noise, but not as much as they have the potential to produce”

He, and Meis, literally get paid millions to design stadiums so it’s hard not to take what they think as the best way to go.
Click to expand...
We're talking side tiers here though. They don't create the noise, they will be joining in with the noise from the End Stands.
 
Tom Hughes said:
There are overhangs at the Emirates, Spurs, Benfica, Etihad

Most of the stadia you mentioned DO have overlapping tiers... there are many more modern stadia worldwide that do also. Yes, single tiers under a single roof can be unifying for home end (like the kop, south tribune etc) or "popular" side sections (like the Kippax, or similar at several grounds). The Emirates, Spurs, Benfica and the Etihad all have overlapping of the lower tier. If the corporate tier is minimal to non-existent, then that overlap and resultant capacity would be bigger.

There are several factors affecting atmosphere enhancement. Massing and proximity to, and shape of roof obviously can have a great effect. The Millennium stadium has overlapping tiers and generally has a far superior atmosphere than the much larger Wembley because a large proportion of the general admission capacity is elevated and enveloped by a vast closing roof.
Click to expand...
That’s some stretch to class all them stadiums as having overlapping tiers.

Overlapping is the Main stand and Gwladys street at Goodison.

Not the back row of the bottom tier barely being covered by the upper tier like it is in those stadiums.
 

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