New Everton Stadium Discussion

[SerenityNigh]

Overlapping views start becoming almost essential as you go over 50k as viewing distances become excessive. They needn't be excessively claustrophobic if vertical sughtlines are maintained at modern standard. There are over lapping tiers at most of the world's greatest large stadia. The flip side ofcourse is that upper tiers are brought closer for a given capacity.... meaning on average everyone is closer to the action. So, it's a bit swings and roundabouts.

this is one of the biggest stadiums in the world, no overlap (just appears that way because of the box seats)

 

[Cake]

And ultimately, what would the point be of staying at Goodison, in any case? Other than the fact we have played there for a long time (sentimentality), I can't think of any good reason to have wanted to stay, personally. The area is not the best, transport is not bad but nothing to write home about, the pubs are 'orrible and errrr..... that's about it. Just why go to all that trouble and expense? I really don't get it. Sorry, to anybody who will need to be moved kicking and dragging form L4 4EL, but personally, I can't wait.

You'll never take the Goodison Supper Bar, "Final" pink Echo and the "Get yourselves to church, Heathens" sandwich board man at the end of the game.

 

[Dixieslaces]

It is a very industrial/commercial area. There are residents, too. I suspect that a lot of the businesses that can will allow supporters to use their carparks, if they are not in use when a match is taking place. I have spotted a good few companies who this might apply to. I'm thinking of what happens around Old Trafford and Wembley. This is before we talk about any multi-storeys being built. But, I think we have to ensure that public transport (buses especially) on a match day/night is as good as can be, to dissuade as many as possible from using their cars.

That multi storey at the Pier Head is mega bucks, was there for 5 hours Saturday £18!! Almost like they don't want us driving those motorised vehicular thingymajigs

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

And ultimately, what would the point be of staying at Goodison, in any case? Other than the fact we have played there for a long time (sentimentality), I can't think of any good reason to have wanted to stay, personally. The area is not the best, transport is not bad but nothing to write home about, the pubs are 'orrible and errrr..... that's about it. Just why go to all that trouble and expense? I really don't get it. Sorry, to anybody who will need to be moved kicking and dragging form L4 4EL, but personally, I can't wait.

Not enough gastro pubs for your bourgeois tastes ?
Th gentrification of what was once a working man’s sport has a lot to answer for.
The pubs are sound by the way.

 

[Dixieslaces]

this is one of the biggest stadiums in the world, no overlap (just appears that way because of the box seats)

It never rains in Texas? Thats freakin huge!

 

[SerenityNigh]

If you're involved in the construction industry then you'll know full well that no two construction projects are the same. It's completely pointless trying to take a simplistic approach and comparing it to the regen works going on at Anfield or any other stadium for that matter.

Even in something as simple/common as residential housing, if you have experience you know that new construction is almost always cheaper than complete rehab.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Is there any residential around there? Maybe the flats opposite Costco, but isnt the whole place Commerical and Industrial?

If Peel have their way it will residential from BMD all the way to the Liver Building

 

[Dr Baxter]

Not enough gastro pubs for your bourgeois tastes ?
Th gentrification of what was once a working man’s sport has a lot to answer for.
The pubs are sound by the way.

No, the pubs are crap. All of them. Not one of them serves a decent pint of real ale. Some used to. It's not about gentrification, it's about not putting up with garbage facilities.

 

[Dixieslaces]

Not enough gastro pubs for your bourgeois tastes ?
Th gentrification of what was once a working man’s sport has a lot to answer for.
The pubs are sound by the way.

This and This

 

[Street end man]

That multi storey at the Pier Head is mega bucks, was there for 5 hours Saturday £18!! Almost like they don't want us driving those motorised vehicular thingymajigs

And the waste land people are saying will be made available for parking will follow suit costwise for you to park up for 3 hours.

 

[Dixieslaces]

And the waste land people are saying will be made available for parking will follow suit costwise for you to park up for 3 hours.

The cash cow will fully milked!

 

[BullensRoad]

No, the pubs are crap. All of them. Not one of them serves a decent pint of real ale. Some used to. It's not about gentrification, it's about not putting up with garbage facilities.

Stepping into piss soaked floors to drink a pint of warm carling, is what people want?

Fair play to them if they’re happy with that. Start a new team and play by there.

 

[Street end man]

I think the average fan or at least me and mates of mine still out of ease would wish to drive to a game and park up leaving a 20/25 min walk to the ground, with maybe a few chippies and places to grab a bite and drink before the match. Nice,simple and no faff.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It never rains in Texas? Thats freakin huge!

they like things bigger than normal in Texas, but it's hard to get a good sense of how unnaturally large it is. I would say it's too big for soccer but Brazil and Mexico play there this summer so I guess we'll find out if it's good for that use.

 

[Jacko93]

I can point to any number of examples to show how it could be a fraction of the cost (and have done several times).

We really don't have to look too far for an obvious one (a few hundred metres across the park), which was only approx £200m construction cost to get from 45k to almost 62k capacity (it would've been less if they'd done both at the same time). I stood in the upper tier of another on Tuesday night, that cost far less again to go from 36k to 52k. There ard many more besides. So it's hardly a great mystery.

The simple maths is, it is almost always far cheeper to add say 20k or 30k capacity to an existing stadium, than to build a whole new 50k+ stadium from scratch. Which is why the majority of larger clubs have chosen the former approach. That theory even applies to the mega-rich clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona who have both chosen redevelopment over new-build..... to prove that they need not be cheap and nasty addlibs. Obviously, for smaller clubs, the sale of their existing site would often cover the bulk or even all the costs of a new build. That rarely applies to those seeking stadia over 35k, since cost per seat rises almost exponentially with capacity.

Depending on the format chosen, 27k (or as high as 35k) of GP is entirely recyclable capacity. If 1, 2 or even 3 of the existing upper tiers were replaced with whole new tiers, and Park end expanded too to reach BMDs capacity... Then, even at Anfield's cost per seat for construction, it would only be £150-270m. The actual cost per seat would be less, because the starting construction height would be considerably lower on both the Gwladys St and Bullens Rd stands, because both lower tiers are much lower than those built over at Anfield. Therefore, there would be significantly less construction volume in total too, which is the greatest cost determining factor. So you could probably trim those figures by 30%+.

You could also extrapolate those numbers further to reach 60k or 65k capacity at GP. So, whichever way you want to cook it, the cost is a fraction of BMD everytime, because building 20-35k new capacity is always cheaper than building 53k... even more so when it costs £150m just to prep the new site, and conserve the surroundings.

Neither Barcelona, nor Real Madrid chose redevelopment due to how much cheaper it is.