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New Everton Stadium

Steve0 said:
Do you have a link to that, that seems unrealistically low.

10,000 tickets (the increase in av attendance that figure represents) x 25 (realistic number of home games) x 30 (average price of ticket plus profits from food, drink, programmes and added merchandise sales) = 7.5m.

Increase in matchday hospitality could be another £1.5m?

Naming rights = £4m a year?

Increased conference facilities = £1m a year?

All told that's £14m a year and in all honesty i think all estimates are prudent so that could be increased by several million. then there's the fact the TV money has increased hugely since Kirby was mooted.
Click to expand...

The £6m was detailed in Deloitte's report scrutinised at the enquiry if I recall. DK was never viable.

There's no detail yet for WHP but it would be some feat of business ingenuity if we were to gain £30m increase in revenue from a new stadium in that location.
 
The Deloitte figures are a bit out of date as based on older prices but they provide a fair benchmark.

You can work out roughly from prior year match day revenue, season ticket sales and quoted attendances how much we take per game for different groups of ticket e.g. Full price/early bird/ discounted adult season and single ticket, junior equivalents etc. Considerably more than half our ticket sales are at a substantial (20% minimum and for juniors/infants far more) discount to a single adult ticket price. I estimate this season our average per match take per fan will be nearer £25 than £30 including retail profits.

If you extrapolate this then a 7000-8000 attendance increase adds about £6m to revenue if you assume a significant proportion of increase is from boxes, exec/lounge seats etc. and a "fair pricing" policy to avoid price increases and maintain or even extend discounted options. Effectively the average take per new seat is assumed to be £40 factoring this all in.

Several PL teams in London significantly exceed £50 per fan meaning a 40k crowd for them would require us to sell >70k to match the revenue even in a new stadium assuming we get towards £30 per fan average.

The direct benefit of 10k extra capacity is marginal at best for us and still leaves us massively disadvantaged vs. London clubs and our Northern rivals with massive global fan bases and fly-in fans. If we are lucky we cover increased costs and interest/debt repayments with direct match day revenue.

So, this has to work on a second level by improving overall perception and visibility of the club to boost attractiveness to commercial partners and generate indirect revenue benefits. It does eliminate a key negative for a potential buyer/investor (it does not create a real positive differentiator unless it draws in hordes of new, largely overseas fans, by coinciding with playing success).

We do need better facilities and increased capacity but we must be realistic about the benefits.

(Before anyone asks, yes I am a qualified accountant and business executive so sorry about the numbers and realism!)
 
toffee66 said:
The Deloitte figures are a bit out of date as based on older prices but they provide a fair benchmark.

You can work out roughly from prior year match day revenue, season ticket sales and quoted attendances how much we take per game for different groups of ticket e.g. Full price/early bird/ discounted adult season and single ticket, junior equivalents etc. Considerably more than half our ticket sales are at a substantial (20% minimum and for juniors/infants far more) discount to a single adult ticket price. I estimate this season our average per match take per fan will be nearer £25 than £30 including retail profits.

If you extrapolate this then a 7000-8000 attendance increase adds about £6m to revenue if you assume a significant proportion of increase is from boxes, exec/lounge seats etc. and a "fair pricing" policy to avoid price increases and maintain or even extend discounted options. Effectively the average take per new seat is assumed to be £40 factoring this all in.

Several PL teams in London significantly exceed £50 per fan meaning a 40k crowd for them would require us to sell >70k to match the revenue even in a new stadium assuming we get towards £30 per fan average.

The direct benefit of 10k extra capacity is marginal at best for us and still leaves us massively disadvantaged vs. London clubs and our Northern rivals with massive global fan bases and fly-in fans. If we are lucky we cover increased costs and interest/debt repayments with direct match day revenue.

So, this has to work on a second level by improving overall perception and visibility of the club to boost attractiveness to commercial partners and generate indirect revenue benefits. It does eliminate a key negative for a potential buyer/investor (it does not create a real positive differentiator unless it draws in hordes of new, largely overseas fans, by coinciding with playing success).

We do need better facilities and increased capacity but we must be realistic about the benefits.

(Before anyone asks, yes I am a qualified accountant and business executive so sorry about the numbers and realism!)
Click to expand...

Excellent, what is your view on my suggestion that we would be classed as high risk to banks and lenders. To sort a recent dispute on here.

Also, your take on the Vibrac loans would be good as well.
 
toffee66 said:
The direct benefit of 10k extra capacity is marginal at best for us and still leaves us massively disadvantaged vs. London clubs and our Northern rivals with massive global fan bases and fly-in fans. If we are lucky we cover increased costs and interest/debt repayments with direct match day revenue.

So, this has to work on a second level by improving overall perception and visibility of the club to boost attractiveness to commercial partners and generate indirect revenue benefits. It does eliminate a key negative for a potential buyer/investor (it does not create a real positive differentiator unless it draws in hordes of new, largely overseas fans, by coinciding with playing success).

We do need better facilities and increased capacity but we must be realistic about the benefits.
Click to expand...

This is why to me the business case for any new stadium must be watertight and clearly explain the benefits over redevelopment. Independent analysis of both options would be very welcome though highly unlikely to happen.
 
Steve0 said:
Do you have a link to that, that seems unrealistically low.
10,000 tickets (the increase in av attendance that figure represents) x 25 (realistic number of home games) x 30 (average price of ticket plus profits from food, drink, programmes and added merchandise sales) = 7.5m.

Increase in matchday hospitality could be another £1.5m?

Naming rights = £4m a year?

Increased conference facilities = £1m a year?

All told that's £14m a year and in all honesty i think all estimates are prudent so that could be increased by several million. then there's the fact the TV money has increased hugely since Kirby was mooted.
Click to expand...

I was there at the enquiry mate, These are the quotes from the enquiry

“But it's confirmed in a letter from Deloitte, Dan Jones stated from our work with the club to date on its business plan we understand the annual potential business to the club of the new stadium is of the order of £6M” “Robert Elstone replied “That's profit not revenue”
“And just to confirm” Colin asked, “this figure is based on a target of 47,000?” “Yes” was Robert Elstone's reply.
 

MickA said:
You're spot on and that's what worries me about the location of the stadium. We need to utilise it as much as possible on non-match days and unless there's something unique about the project I can't see that at WHP.

I wouldn't have thought we'd have anywhere near the amount of restrictions on night events that DK was subject to but also think additional £30m of revenue from the building is extremely optomistic at best.
Click to expand...

I agree,
If it had of been in a prime location(closer to town) then I could half understand it.
 
Matches against the RS, city and united would easily fill a 50000 seater stadium. Add in the fact the likes of arsenal and spurs having a bigger away allocation (they are well supported away from home) would I guess see us get gates of 45000+. Playing the likes of stoke, QPR and palace and we would do well to get 40000+. I think an average attendance of 45000 is achievable with a sensible pricing structure. Our match day income wouldn't increase by that much in football terms, however are appeal to potential investors certainly would.
 
Steve0 said:
Do you have a link to that, that seems unrealistically low.

10,000 tickets (the increase in av attendance that figure represents) x 25 (realistic number of home games) x 30 (average price of ticket plus profits from food, drink, programmes and added merchandise sales) = 7.5m.

Increase in matchday hospitality could be another £1.5m?

Naming rights = £4m a year?

Increased conference facilities = £1m a year?

All told that's £14m a year and in all honesty i think all estimates are prudent so that could be increased by several million. then there's the fact the TV money has increased hugely since Kirby was mooted.
Click to expand...

I agree the landscape has changed since Kirby. Our revenue has increased over 50% since then.
 

Neiler said:
Croker received 119 million in Government funding and it's a national stadium for Gaelic Games not any teams ground! Though Dublin play almost all their home games there.

I see the comparison be made quiet often, but it's not the same to be honest - funding etc.

I have a season ticket for the ground BTW!
Click to expand...
Croke Park didn't get €119 million in funding from the government

It got a load of Lotto money. Not taxpayers money
 

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