New Everton Stadium

[Jacko93]

No, our plans didn't change after we'd started building. Costs went up because we chose to pursue a more expensive scheme, not because we changed our minds halfway through building something else!

The old plans were scrapped entirely, and in 2015 planning permission was sought for the current scheme (designed by a completely different architect). It was gained pretty quickly because there was already planning permission for a big new stadium on that site. Only after planning permission was gained for the entirety of the new scheme did building work begin. We didn't change to the new NFL-capable stadium during the build, and the brief was solid before building work began, but it was a brief for a higher-spec, more expensive stadium than the old one revealed in 2008.*

So back to this thread - unless the club and/or the planning committee feel like they've really got something major wrong or the scheme as revealed suddenly becomes unviable, there are unlikely to be big changes between what's revealed and what's built. Especially if the timelines are tight and there's a need to get this stadium done for 2022. The only exception I can think would be if there are two distinct sets of plans, one dependent on the Commonwealth Games and the other not.

* There have been two minor changes since the building work started - the design of the West entrance has become more curved after the planning committee raised concerns about its aesthetics, and there's been a minor tweak to the internal seating layout. But nothing major.

I should have been more specific. Spurs changed their brief, and that why it got more expensive. The change in brief, meant a change in design, which meant a change in cost. Prior to the construction stages.

There are always minor tweaks through a build as you mention.

 

[toffee66]

Jacko, coming back to us again my HOK mate made various comments on the BH leaked drawings, including how tight the site is in North/South with impacts on external concourses/safety. He felt this alignment was chosen as it would be harder to handle spectator exit to east of site (via dock wall side) and car parks in an East-West layout. He also noted the dock wall is an issue on access and even more so on exit as it funnels a lot of people through an unusually narrow exit corridor with no alternative routes. He knows it is listed/protected but thought something would have to give on this in planning in the form of extra gaps/gates or alternative access via a partially filled/resurfaced Nelson dock (not assumed in BH drawings). Thoughts?

 

[toffeejack]

I doubt it would be possible to have 'two way' views just because that would make the stadium very narrow, generally you would need access into the boxes from the rear to bring in food/drink plus be able to evacuate in an emergency. However i would guess they would have access to bars/resturants that will have views over the Mersey and maybe at a concourse level too so when they are going to their seats/boxes they will see it.

yeah i was thinking about the narrow aspect, long and narrow rooms? ha

 

[beachy]

Jacko, coming back to us again my HOK mate made various comments on the BH leaked drawings, including how tight the site is in North/South with impacts on external concourses/safety. He felt this alignment was chosen as it would be harder to handle spectator exit to east of site (via dock wall side) and car parks in an East-West layout. He also noted the dock wall is an issue on access and even more so on exit as it funnels a lot of people through an unusually narrow exit corridor with no alternative routes. He knows it is listed/protected but thought something would have to give on this in planning in the form of extra gaps/gates or alternative access via a partially filled/resurfaced Nelson dock (not assumed in BH drawings). Thoughts?

I like the north south layout. Plans look great to me.

Think the wall will have to go, and pavements expanded on nearby roads.

Car access might have to be from south of nelson dock.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Clearly some structural engineering types who know their onions within this industry are helping us form a better understanding of the leaked plans so far. Considering early rumours compared the new Goodison to the Lucas Oil Field stadium, is anything like that realistic based on the site and current projected budget? I keep hearing the word iconic used but I am now wondering if it will be a very nice stadium in a fantastic location but short of iconic when initially built. That render of the lit stadium looks nice enough but not an absolute wowzer at the moment. I get that the waterfront location will help but hope its not just an average stadium in a first class location. I want it to be big and imposing, making the reds envious from their stapler stand in a patched up Analfield, whilst other clubs and their fans shake at the thought of visiting the most intimidating stadium in British football. It should also a given as a competition venue should we ever get the World Cup or Euros. The window to the 3 Graces does not look a possibility at the moment although I think the orientation would allow that if the design incorporated it. Would be a shame to miss that opportunity especially if our wall of blue will be at the north end. Views of the city whilst watching the match would be incredible.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Clearly some structural engineering types who know their onions within this industry are helping us form a better understanding of the leaked plans so far. Considering early rumours compared the new Goodison to the Lucas Oil Field stadium, is anything like that realistic based on the site and current projected budget? I keep hearing the word iconic used but I am now wondering if it will be a very nice stadium in a fantastic location but short of iconic when initially built. That render of the lit stadium looks nice enough but not an absolute wowzer at the moment. I get that the waterfront location will help but hope its not just an average stadium in a first class location. I want it to be big and imposing, making the reds envious from their stapler stand in a patched up Analfield, whilst other clubs and their fans shake at the thought of visiting the most intimidating stadium in British football. It should also a given as a competition venue should we ever get the World Cup or Euros. The window to the 3 Graces does not look a possibility at the moment although I think the orientation would allow that if the design incorporated it. Would be a shame to miss that opportunity especially if our wall of blue will be at the north end. Views of the city whilst watching the match would be incredible.

If the leaks are correct it's more big and blue than big and brick.

 

[Jacko93]

Jacko, coming back to us again my HOK mate made various comments on the BH leaked drawings, including how tight the site is in North/South with impacts on external concourses/safety. He felt this alignment was chosen as it would be harder to handle spectator exit to east of site (via dock wall side) and car parks in an East-West layout. He also noted the dock wall is an issue on access and even more so on exit as it funnels a lot of people through an unusually narrow exit corridor with no alternative routes. He knows it is listed/protected but thought something would have to give on this in planning in the form of extra gaps/gates or alternative access via a partially filled/resurfaced Nelson dock (not assumed in BH drawings). Thoughts?

I'm no expert in transport or access planning, but all that makes sense. New access will likely be formed in the wall, which is much more sympathetic than just getting rid of it (I doubt that would pass as a viable solution anyway). Another reason for the orientation is for TV coverage and premium seating (back to the sun). Its also better for the players as they wont face into a low sun.

 

[Titus Bramble]

No, our plans didn't change after we'd started building. Costs went up because we chose to pursue a more expensive scheme, not because we changed our minds halfway through building something else!

The old plans were scrapped entirely, and in 2015 planning permission was sought for the current scheme (designed by a completely different architect). It was gained pretty quickly because there was already planning permission for a big new stadium on that site. Only after planning permission was gained for the entirety of the new scheme did building work begin. We didn't change to the new NFL-capable stadium during the build, and the brief was solid before building work began, but it was a brief for a higher-spec, more expensive stadium than the old one revealed in 2008.*

So back to this thread - unless the club and/or the planning committee feel like they've really got something major wrong or the scheme as revealed suddenly becomes unviable, there are unlikely to be big changes between what's revealed and what's built. Especially if the timelines are tight and there's a need to get this stadium done for 2022. The only exception I can think would be if there are two distinct sets of plans, one dependent on the Commonwealth Games and the other not.

* There have been two minor changes since the building work started - the design of the West entrance has become more curved after the planning committee raised concerns about its aesthetics, and there's been a minor tweak to the internal seating layout. But nothing major.

I thought a few more seats are being added amongst some other things?

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Was on the Liverpool planning site earlier, just checking to see if anything had been stealth added for BMD. There wasn't, but there was two bits of permission granted for Goodison in either May. One of them is for the Disabled Friendly changes being made, the second one mentioned an LED screen, I wonder if it's the big one along he back of the Park End that was in the cladding plans?

 

[tommye]

61878.



It's on. By bloody jove, IT'S ON.

 

[Achilles Heel]

If the leaks are correct it's more big and blue than big and brick.

Didn't Meis say at some point that the design needed to look like the stadium "grew out of the docks" rather than just be a massive structure simply planted on top of them? I hope that is true and part of his brief. It needs to fit with the area but be instantly recognisable to other fans as Everton. I am no architect but Big & Blue doesn't really fit with Meis's words to me.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Didn't Meis say at some point that the design needed to look like the stadium "grew out of the docks" rather than just be a massive structure simply planted on top of them? I hope that is true and part of his brief. It needs to fit with the area but be instantly recognisable to other fans as Everton. I am no architect but Big & Blue doesn't really fit with Meis's words to me.

One of the leaks was a slide supposedly shown at Goodison:

Spoiler

The same image in that slide then appeared in a leaked booklet that had lots of other site information, flow of people etc. The images of that booklet have been removed from certain sites (this included) due to copyright claims from the creators of the booklet.

 

[Exeter Gently]

am not feeling it from that spoiler.....i want a lot more brick,Something more in keeping with the surrounding buildings.

 

[Achilles Heel]

One of the leaks was a slide supposedly shown at Goodison:


The same image in that slide then appeared in a leaked booklet that had lots of other site information, flow of people etc. The images of that booklet have been removed from certain sites (this included) due to copyright claims from the creators of the booklet.

I can see some brick work I think, but hardly Lucas Oil. That outline stand doesn't look particularly steep but I know nothing of these things. Looks more like the Park End with an extra tier. If that is out there already, what is taking Meis so long!!??!! The players transfers are fab but I am growing ever more impatient for the stadium design release by the day.

 

[JordanianEmbassy]

One of the leaks was a slide supposedly shown at Goodison:


The same image in that slide then appeared in a leaked booklet that had lots of other site information, flow of people etc. The images of that booklet have been removed from certain sites (this included) due to copyright claims from the creators of the booklet.

Biggest problem with that for me is the lack of overhang from the upper tier. If we are catering for a running track that could be the reason, and will result in the seats in the upper tiers being much further away from the pitch than they otherwise would. I hope I'm wrong.