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New Everton Stadium

rstevens said:
But the risk is huge for the rewards though.

its like loaning a person 20k but the person has shown themselves to struggle paying off a phone bill in the past. would you do it?

I think the silence of other investor is deafening to be honest, and the fact we have struggled to get finance in the past as well. everton simply arent run good enough yet. certainly not good enough to pay off half a billion pounds.
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agreed.

how many clubs have had 100's of millions pumped into them and then bombed.

leeds, Portsmouth, Newcastle, villa, Blackburn .. etc etc etc

football and good business do not mix well.

you are always one bad manager away from relegation, simple as that.
 
rstevens said:
But the risk is huge for the rewards though.

its like loaning a person 20k but the person has shown themselves to struggle paying off a phone bill in the past. would you do it?

I think the silence of other investor is deafening to be honest, and the fact we have struggled to get finance in the past as well. everton simply arent run good enough yet. certainly not good enough to pay off half a billion pounds.
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It is a big risk for the council lending that amount of money, and am surprised by the not just being the guarantor. I suppose if it all goes tits up they lose out both ways but at least they are making money from us this way, and maybe own a share in the ground.
 
BigBlueNose said:
agreed.

how many clubs have had 100's of millions pumped into them and then bombed.

leeds, Portsmouth, Newcastle, villa, Blackburn .. etc etc etc

football and good business do not mix well.

you are always one bad manager away from relegation, simple as that.
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christ even liverpool almost went bust. if we was run by someone as smart as levy, and the performances on and off the pitch where consistently great, then yes I wouldn't worry. but we are run by bill, FS, fighting relegation for half a season, sold out best assets etc


this could sink us.
 
Jozzy said:
So we're not actually getting any money from the Liverpool City Council, just assistance to loan a fair whack of the money?
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The council is either going to loan money itself, and then loan that money to Everton. Or they will act as a guarantor that could potentially increase the likelihood of Everton obtaining commercial loans themselves. In either case, it will only end up costing the council in the event that Everton default on the loan.

However it seems that the council lending money directly to the club will be seen as more controversial than acting as a guarantor, even though the risk will not be as high.

If the money is loaned by the council, and then loaned to Everton, then the council is at risk of having to pay back a loan at a rate that they obtained if Everton were to default. Whereas they would be obliged to pay back a loan at a higher rate if Everton defaulted on a loan that had been secured with the council acting as guarantor.

That's my understanding of it anyway.
 
rstevens said:
Nope. Not even close.

If it goes tits up ( which it very well could considering even the RS got close to bankruptcy and they are and where far better run) the council is then liable for 300+ million.

your analogy is crap, its like putting a 50K car down as a guarentor for a 10k loan, for a person who has the job title of professional bum.

When have everton shown ourselves to have the ability to pay off a half a billion pound debt?

By assets I'm talking about we have no 50+ million pound players now and talking about insurance on players, what are we gonna do? start mowing them down and getting the rewards?

it could bankrupt the club and the city and moshiri could still walk away laughing.

How is it people are DEFENDING a Billionaire who from what it looks like, wont even provide the other 1/3 of the financing? and is loading the city of liverpool and everton football club with a debt of 500+ million?

the more I think about it, the more this looks like a massive swindle.

buy a stake of a club - pump 500 Million in debt into it - build stadium - sell shares for massive amounts of profit - club cant sustain half a billion pound debt - club goes bankrupt -walks away laughing.
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Liverpool weren't better run. They nearly went bust.
 

rstevens said:
Nope. Not even close.

If it goes tits up ( which it very well could considering even the RS got close to bankruptcy and they are and where far better run) the council is then liable for 300+ million.

your analogy is crap, its like putting a 50K car down as a guarentor for a 10k loan, for a person who has the job title of professional bum.

When have everton shown ourselves to have the ability to pay off a half a billion pound debt?

By assets I'm talking about we have no 50+ million pound players now and talking about insurance on players, what are we gonna do? start mowing them down and getting the rewards?

it could bankrupt the club and the city and moshiri could still walk away laughing.

How is it people are DEFENDING a Billionaire who from what it looks like, wont even provide the other 1/3 of the financing? and is loading the city of liverpool and everton football club with a debt of 500+ million?

the more I think about it, the more this looks like a massive swindle.

buy a stake of a club - pump 500 Million in debt into it - build stadium - sell shares for massive amounts of profit - club cant sustain half a billion pound debt - club goes bankrupt -walks away laughing.
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This lot assumes that we haven't paid anything off before we go bust and that the stadium and land is worth nothing.

First things first, Everton are not going to go bust and even if we did we would be a new company playing in that stadium, continuing to pay the monthly commitments. Seeing Leeds didn't get liquidated I doubt we will. I believe there is a requirement to have a slush fund of 5 years (or an 8th of the entire loan) to be sitting in a bank account in case of any financial troubles anyhow.

The debt is not being loaded onto the council. Even 2nd divison clubs could pay that kind of money longterm yearly on a new stadium. If you have such a high opinion of the club wouldn't it be better for your health if you found another that doesn't fill you with such impending doom?

Like anyone who has ever taken out a mortgage it's likely you will never be able to afford to buy something that expensive outright to start with, but split the payments over a lot of years and suddenly it is affordable. Not to mention the thing will pay for itself by extra capacity, hospitality and naming rights.

Or lets just stand still and moan how the club that we have complained haven't been ambitious enough over the last 40-50 years are still doing nothing... :Blink:
 
rstevens said:
christ even liverpool almost went bust. if we was run by someone as smart as levy, and the performances on and off the pitch where consistently great, then yes I wouldn't worry. but we are run by bill, FS, fighting relegation for half a season, sold out best assets etc


this could sink us.
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What would be your preferred option? I find it incredible that someone appears to be so dead against a new stadium.
 

rstevens said:
there where commercially better run and nearly went bust because the owners put them in debt and where about to saddle them with 300+ more debt for the new stadium.

it could easily happen to us.
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It could happen to us yes. It could also be the best thing that has happened to the club. Like anything, we don't know what the future holds. I don't know why people on here sit there and think Moshiri is going to just give us all his money. That would be mental. He is of course minimizing his risk. Why wouldn't he?

The club looks to be in a much better place financially since Moshiri came in. That gives me more faith in this project than the horrible Kirkby one and the Kings dock
 
rstevens said:
there where commercially better run and nearly went bust because the owners put them in debt and where about to saddle them with 300+ more debt for the new stadium.

it could easily happen to us.
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So they weren't better run because it was an unsustainable business model.

People have been moaning for years that we haven't been spending money all over the show, That's because doing so would've been an unsustainable business model.

How can a business that ends up in court, and effectively going into administration in all but name be better run than a company that doesn't?

Wonder what would've happened to Liverpool had they of gone bust?
 
WA Toffee said:
What would be your preferred option? I find it incredible that someone appears to be so dead against a new stadium.
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Our so called billionaire owner paying for it? I thought that was the point. he also keeps on saying while he is around money shouldn't matter. yet here we are, saddling the club with a load of debt and having to beg to the council and others.
 

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