used the last estimate of 760 million for total cost divided by 53k.
Used that as a base cost per seat and doubled it for the additional 5000, all rough numbers and guessing.
used the last estimate of 760 million for total cost divided by 53k.
Used that as a base cost per seat and doubled it for the additional 5000, all rough numbers and guessing.
The cost would have been for extra steel length in the raker beams, more concrete terracing, seats and higher roof, maybe an extra three to four rows right around minus the north stand, but 150million extra???
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Like most new builds, it was a compromise. The £100 plus million to fill a dock in, or 7000 more seats in a different location. Think we chose the best option.
But that would discount economies of scale. It would also discount lots of things from the build that wouldn't be significantly more complex - like filling the dock and piling the foundations - which were incredibly expensive - and I'm guessing it wouldn't add much to the interior fit-out, either.
I think disproportionate cost was an easy thing for the club to flag as an excuse for not going bigger.
Just all rough estimates but if it was cost viable they would have made it bigger.
I remember Dan Meis even saying that the last 10000 seats on a new stadium are the most expensive.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I mean ultimately there is a reason why the stadium isn't bigger - and financial considerations are clearly the most obvious.
But it not being bigger was explained away with a cocktail of reasons by the club: cost, ensuring we consistently hit capacity, atmosphere, heritage concerns... and when someone throws a load of reasons at you at once, it starts to sound like a string of excuses.
Ultimately, the project was originally designed to be significantly bigger. So that made sense to everyone for a huge chunk of the process.
Then that changed.
I'm certainly in the camp that thinks we aren't being ambitious enough. We have a massive season ticket waiting list, and it's really hard to get tickets for individual matches beyond that.
I used to work for a newspaper, and I remember the newspaper sales manager telling me that in an ideal world, he'd walk into any given newsagent as they were about to close and there'd be one unsold paper left on the shelf. The goal wasn't to sell out, it was to leave one paper because it meant you'd sold to every potential customer.
Similarly, if we sell out every home game at Bramley-Moore, it'd mean we weren't ambitious enough.
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Mrtallywacker
GOT spiritual advisor
Indeed he does my son. Why he let that shower over the park spawn into life is a mystery to me for starters.
God bless.
Nothing, I mean NOTHING will stop the Booooo's
Gabagool
Player Valuation: £950k
He also stressed the importance of the illusion of scarcity of the good (availability of a ticket) which can significantly drive demand, hence why you typically try to build "one less seat than you can sell on any given day".
One of my favourite (non-Everton) footballing experiences was seeing Juve play at their new stadium a few years after it reopened - the 41k capacity cauldron is far superior to the Delle Alpi that came before it, and the atmosphere that it creates is worth more to them in the form of home advantage than any greater ticket revenue that they decided to forego.
Johnnytotal
Player Valuation: £10m
Surprised there are no videos of the build taken from a ship coming into dock yet.
Not seen any anyway.
Not seen any anyway.
SweetAmnesia672
Player Valuation: £225k
A lot of NFL/MLB teams in the US are currently dealing with building too much capacity in their stadiums during the 90s, when pro sports attendance likely peaked here. One of the challenges is that when tickets become too available in the secondary market, the people who suffer the most are season ticket holders, who suddenly have to eat the cost of a ticket that goes unused (or sell it under face value hoping to recoup something) because it's not as easy to get rid of. If that happens often enough, their season tickets become less attractive and they stop renewing, which makes the problem that much worse (i.e. there's even more tickets available now).
Logistically speaking, the PL is definitely different. First off, relegation is possible so there are far fewer 'meaningless' games in general. Likewise, even in good years, fans in the US often stop attending late season games because the upcoming playoff games become more important, both for the team competitively and for the fans in terms of interest. That's not an issue in the PL.
Still, the possibility of overbuilding is definitely real. I have no doubt that in a 60-65k stadium, they'll have no problem selling every seat for the biggest games, but imagine being a frustrated STH who has to eat the cost of terrible matchup multiple times a year.
As someone else in this thread pointed out, every seat they add is by definition the cheapest seat in the stadium, and it can only get purchased by a fan who is even more a casual supporter than everyone else in the stadium.
I'm not an expert on the matter by any means, but based on the numbers they published (31k season ticket holders, 17k waiting list), 53k doesn't seem that crazy.
Logistically speaking, the PL is definitely different. First off, relegation is possible so there are far fewer 'meaningless' games in general. Likewise, even in good years, fans in the US often stop attending late season games because the upcoming playoff games become more important, both for the team competitively and for the fans in terms of interest. That's not an issue in the PL.
Still, the possibility of overbuilding is definitely real. I have no doubt that in a 60-65k stadium, they'll have no problem selling every seat for the biggest games, but imagine being a frustrated STH who has to eat the cost of terrible matchup multiple times a year.
As someone else in this thread pointed out, every seat they add is by definition the cheapest seat in the stadium, and it can only get purchased by a fan who is even more a casual supporter than everyone else in the stadium.
I'm not an expert on the matter by any means, but based on the numbers they published (31k season ticket holders, 17k waiting list), 53k doesn't seem that crazy.
Sell-outs don't guarantee results...lack of ambition has been failing elsewhere.
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Juventus don't need to worry about the income that the extra seats make though. They can make any shortfall up with prize money, bigger sponsorship deals, shirt and merchandise sales that come with being the largest club in the country. That will always allow them to compete in the league they play in.
For us we are building a stadium to generate more income to try and hang on to the coat tails of other clubs. Only problem is teams around us like Arsenal, Spurs, City, RS and you can even throw in smaller like West ham already have done this. As ours is smaller than all of the above and our ticket prices are probably less, actually the gap we are trying to plug has grown wider which means we either need to be perfect with our recruitment or we need a sugar daddy. Both of those things we haven't been great at.
Toffeeslam
Player Valuation: £35m
Would it have got planning permission if we went bigger ? I remember there were objections from those heritage England lot so the club scaled it back to ensure it’s built and that meant lowering the roof by some 7 metres.
Having a huge capacity doesn’t ensure success and if the stadium is sold out every game with a cracking atmosphere then great.
Remember the capacity is some 13k more than Goodison today with no obstacles or obstructed views and much better facilities.
The site can support 60k max anyway I read somewhere