Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £10m
Think it's P&S non-compliance rather than FFP.
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The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
I think most know that, we just use that to cover both as effectively they are very similar bar from one's domestic and the other is for Europe.
Both mean the same thing to keep clubs like us down.
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £10m
The motive might be that (they claim it's to stop clubs going bust), and there are similarities with one essentially an extension or progression of the other, but i think they may be calculated differently or using slightly different criteria/parameters.
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Of course they have different calcs but I wouldn't begrudge anyone saying P&L or FFP for either. Just semantics else.
As for the stopping clubs going bust, plenty of ways they could have done that without saying you can spend what you earn which then gives the current top clubs a huge boost to remain in situ for the foreseeable.
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £10m
I'm not sure it's just Semantics if the numbers and their sources are different.
I'm not a financial type but I'm also not sure how else you could try to control irresponsible spending of club's owners that may endanger their club's futures..... other than perhaps stipulating that owners cannot load any of the debts onto their clubs perhaps. I'm not sure how you do that, or how it would work. I realise the economics of football is in some ways different to many other industries.... but clubs still need to be sustainable. How do we/they ensure that?
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Force owners to clear to the agreed amount of debt at the start of each season. That way if they want to sink the money in they can and club's don't get caught up in situations like us and Leicester where we are so hamstrung it could actually cause financial meltdown through the team's performance.
toffee66
Player Valuation: £8m
The solution is and always has been a salary ceiling/cap and strict squad size limits.
All the big US sports have one in some form:
NFL has a hard cap & roster limits, that are the same for everyone with a minimum spend rule to stop cheap owners spending peanuts and fielding perennially uncompetitive teams; similar media/other revenue sharing to PL; player contracts are typically only partially guaranteed (bar first round draft picks)
NHL is like NFL but with guaranteed player contracts
NBA has a soft cap with a luxury tax system (see below) on a limited ‘permitted’ cap overspend, roster limits and salary slots (effectively capping individual salaries); player contracts are typically fully guaranteed
MLB is the ‘weakest’ having no cap but a soft ‘ceiling’ which you can spend above but have to pay a ‘luxury tax’ on the excess spend (a higher % the bigger the excess) which gets redistributed to other teams in theory helping smaller market/lower revenue teams be more competitive; player contracts are typically guaranteed.
Making some form of salary floor and cap work in PL and lower English leagues would require thought about how to work around the absence of a college entry draft which is a feature of all the US sports providing access to cheap new players with the worst teams generally picking earlier. In our game we would need some combination of stricter rules on academy recruitment/size, younger player overseas recruitment and loans in/out to achieve a weaker but workable ‘entry‘ control to spread access to young talent more fairly.
Making one work across Europe would obviously be much trickier but if there is a genuine will they can find a way.
All the big US sports have one in some form:
NFL has a hard cap & roster limits, that are the same for everyone with a minimum spend rule to stop cheap owners spending peanuts and fielding perennially uncompetitive teams; similar media/other revenue sharing to PL; player contracts are typically only partially guaranteed (bar first round draft picks)
NHL is like NFL but with guaranteed player contracts
NBA has a soft cap with a luxury tax system (see below) on a limited ‘permitted’ cap overspend, roster limits and salary slots (effectively capping individual salaries); player contracts are typically fully guaranteed
MLB is the ‘weakest’ having no cap but a soft ‘ceiling’ which you can spend above but have to pay a ‘luxury tax’ on the excess spend (a higher % the bigger the excess) which gets redistributed to other teams in theory helping smaller market/lower revenue teams be more competitive; player contracts are typically guaranteed.
Making some form of salary floor and cap work in PL and lower English leagues would require thought about how to work around the absence of a college entry draft which is a feature of all the US sports providing access to cheap new players with the worst teams generally picking earlier. In our game we would need some combination of stricter rules on academy recruitment/size, younger player overseas recruitment and loans in/out to achieve a weaker but workable ‘entry‘ control to spread access to young talent more fairly.
Making one work across Europe would obviously be much trickier but if there is a genuine will they can find a way.
And if you are going to do this, then you need to scrap relegation and promotion also.
Unless you really think a club like United should spend as much as Luton Town each season.
Thanks for growing your business over the last 100 years, but now its time to go play in League One.
USM take over Everton, starts throwing money all over the place.
Everton fans : This FFP is a joke, teams should be able to spend what they want.
Russia invades Ukraine, The Saudis take over football.
Everton fans : I think all teams should be treated equally.
Everton fans : This FFP is a joke, teams should be able to spend what they want.
Russia invades Ukraine, The Saudis take over football.
Everton fans : I think all teams should be treated equally.
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Probably not the right thread to go into this but there is ways around it, for one the salary cap could be worked to be say 50 or so million more than the average mid table side (i.e. us), so there is an advantage there for having the income available to spend more and obviously teams like Luton who earn a lot less might be down 100 or 150 million. But least it shouldn't be 300 million as it probably is now.
We shouldnt want to bring clubs down to our level, we should aspire to be on their level.
Aspire all you want, you need a solid base, excellent commercial deals, annual entry into Europe, actual money to spend, we are a million miles from this and if I'm honest can't ever see us joining the top table in my lifetime again. Pessimistic, you bet, look at our owner and our board, admittedly the last bit has changed a little. But I feel as long as Kenwright has his manicured claws in us, nothing is changing anytime soon.
toffee66
Player Valuation: £8m
That is absolute nonsense.
You apply the cap at league level.
You have transitional arrangements on promotion (temporary lower spend floor) and relegation (temporary higher cap) which retains some of the distinctive competitive disadvantages/advantages inherent in our current system when transitioning between leagues but levels the playing field significantly within leagues.
You can improve the system still further by imposing stricter revenue sharing from the PL to the pyramid to slightly reduce the gap from PL to Championship and make sure PL cannot weasel out of promises.
Every problem you can throw up can be solved. The only problem that cannot be solved without political intervention or a dramatic sea change in owner sentiment is the total lack of will at PL level to bring in meaningful change,
windymiller
Player Valuation: £60m
For the most part this is our freedom-loving American fans proposing their socialised model for sports "franchises". The duality of man, eh?
Thats cos nobody wants a level playing field.