New Everton Stadium

[Damo_1878]

Sorry I disagree with you utterly.

If you had been dealing with issues from society regarding disabled people and people in wheelchairs as long as I have you would understand. Disabled people and disabled areas are always targeted in things like this. It's why a legal minimum had to he baught in.

So yes imo it is "disgusting" to target these areas just so a few more people can get tickets.

As people told you earlier. No one has "targeted" anything

People just asked questions and you took it completely the wrong way and tried to shut down legitimate discussions about what the club can do or what may be planned for in future

Its you using the emotive language like "complaining" "selfish" "targeted" "disgusting" etc

All because people asked a couple of questions

I think he was clear there and he's stimulated an interesting discussion. Without doing anything you claimed he did. "Targeted" "complaining" etc

Not at all, I'm just suggesting that there's a low cost way of increasing capacity if the disabled access demand is less than the supply. And was wondering what capacity increase that would facilitate.

I've learnt some things today about the stadium so thanks to all. @WelshBlue92 @Jacko93 etc

 

[Dddddd]

Yes I am standing up for disabled people's rights and speaking up when people suggest taking areas back, even temporary, of disabled areas to fit in "normal" seats or to make it look aesthetically better and less empty.

I am sorry someone standing up for principles and a fairer society makes you feel uncomfortable

How do you know the people asking the question aren’t disabled?

 

[chippy1722]

Yes I am standing up for disabled people's rights and speaking up when people suggest taking areas back, even temporary, of disabled areas to fit in "normal" seats or to make it look aesthetically better and less empty.

I am sorry someone standing up for principles and a fairer society makes you feel uncomfortable

Give it a year or two and there will be no issue for space, there will be plenty of space for disabled and non disabled. Once the Americans are in and the new stadium novelty wears off we’ll be ok for space.

 

[BullensRoad]

And I`m glad to see the McDonalds is still there too. The Stadio Della Alpi was the perfect example of a stadium built without the thought of how it would be able to be financially viable in the future. It was an architect let run with a design that was never going to work for the purpose it was built for. The one benefit for us having to wait so long for us to get our new home, is having the benefit of seeing so many new stadiums built all over Europe in the mean time. There have been plenty of white elephant projects, plenty of stadiums that looked great but did n`t but were built in the wrong location, and others that were built far too big for the clubs that built them.
BMD looks fantastic, the location on the waterfront looks great, we just need the people in charge to be able to use it to maximize the income that it can generate and maybe we can then start to rebuild our reputation as being one of the top clubs in the country.

I remember watching them against juve as a vivid memory the year they had Rafael, even as a youngster barely seeing the crowd and the crowd sounding like a distant noise I thought wtf is this compared to the prem games.

Then West Ham did the funniest thing ever.

 

[tommye]

I remember watching them against juve as a vivid memory the year they had Rafael, even as a youngster barely seeing the crowd and the crowd sounding like a distant noise I thought wtf is this compared to the prem games.

Then West Ham did the funniest thing ever.

Wet Spam is a shocker.
I've watched park games with a better atmosphere.

 

[RomanReigns]

Boss that. But why is there a random clip of Eddie Howe at 3.28?

foreshadowing

 

[Damo_1878]

That stadium is designed to be capable of holding >60k fans. It is designed in almost every fashion to handle that volume. They have just focused in achieving that in the hope that safe standing ratios are allowed to increase. Disability access and locations are based upon capacity, not number of seats, as are concourses and provision of facilities.

I said a while back, with diagrams, how we could be tye only current club to be able to take actual monetary positives out of an increase in standing rations. Spurs for example have maxed out there seated capacity and designed their concourse/circulation and facility provision for those figures. Old stadiums will almost certainly not be able to have a greater than 1:1 ratio due to their provisions being likely already lower than required. It will in fact likely be more like 0.9:1 due to space requirement differences between standing and seating.

I was only highlighting it to @WelshBlue92 and talking from a legal perspective.

FYI my father is a retired director of building control at Local Authorities (not naming them) and was in his time responsible for several ground safety certificates of Championship and Premier League clubs. Including working with police and the fire authorities. (I'm not putting the specific details on which clubs).

What will ultimately determine the upper capacity from "safe standing" without addition to the upper tiers is the ground safety certificate

Capacity Increases won't be granted unless all legal requirements are met an the assessment believes it is truly "safe"

I'm not sure a 0.9:1 capacity (i.e. +10% on 52888 or +5888) would be granted and think upper tier extensions to stands would be needed to truly achieve 60000+. However certain tiers/stands at BMD may be allowed to increase but doubtful any more than ca. +4000

It's an interesting discussion (and now you can see where some of my legal interest have come from. I get them from my father who has dealt with club chairman, CEOs, stadia operation officers etc in his time).

We all want the best for BMD and EFC. Any criticisms I ever make, is in that light.

@WelshBlue92 triggered an interesting discussion about the stadium

I'd highlight @Jacko93 that the 52,888 capacity already includes "safe standing" rail seating in the south stand lower tier (home end) and in the lower section of the away end in the north east corner.



It's therefore not really a feasible to plan to significantly increase capacity at BMD further using "safe standing" as that capacity increase is already included.

It's going to need the roof taking off and increase the size of the tiers to really boost it further IMHO

 

[muckers]

Laings have found a way for slightly more seats.

Initial capacity will be just over 53k.

 

[maccavennie]

Laings have found a way for slightly more seats.

Initial capacity will be just over 53k.

Decent that mate, wonder where they've managed to find the 100 odd more?

 

[muckers]

Decent that mate, wonder where they've managed to find the 100 odd more?

No idea mate, I’m not onsite anymore.

Know plenty who are though, including Laings staff.

That’s where the info has come from.

 

[maccavennie]

No idea mate, I’m not onsite anymore.

Know plenty who are though, including Laings staff.

That’s where the info has come from.

Great that mate, every extra seat is a bonus and one more Evertonian with a chance of a ticket.

 

[Damo_1878]

I'd highlight @Jacko93 that the 52,888 capacity already includes "safe standing" rail seating in the south stand lower tier (home end) and in the lower section of the away end in the north east corner.



It's therefore not really a feasible to plan to significantly increase capacity at BMD further using "safe standing" as that capacity increase is already included.

It's going to need the roof taking off and increase the size of the tiers to really boost it further IMHO

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Was reading back through the thread and the rail seating and specs was discussed last year in June @Jacko93 @WelshBlue92 ... seems like Jacko was included in it

So may be some uplift and Tom's estimate earlier was the same as mine (maybe a maximum of +4000)

For it to be 1.8:1 they would've had to go to bigger treads than they have. They're only 750mm. That equates to 1.3 to 1.5:1 at the most. I think only 7500 seats are earmarked for rail seats at present, which would equate to approx 2-4k uplift, if legislation is ever changed.

They might be able to expand the rail seats if the corresponding concourses allow.

Pretty sure that the stadium guides specify a 350mm tread depth for standing. The design of the rails seating they're using takes up 50mm of space, leaving 2 350mm depths for double rows.

If a standard row is converted into standing, then the ratio is actually less than 1:1 due to standing spectators needing more width when standing (ever notice how rows spill out into the concourse at half time)

Yes.... 2 × 350mm + 50mm for rail seat corresponds to a seated tier of 750mm. This is the bare minimum for greater than 1:1 ratio. The green guide still has a minimum personal spacial allowance. That only equates to 1.3 to 1.5:1 ratio for 750mm seated tread depth. Most German stadia where rail seats are 800 up to 1000mm for that reason.

Incidentally, I spoke to the old man earlier who has literally signed off ground safety certificates. He is NOT a fan of safe standing and would want to see lots of evidence. Normally there is a committee including local authority building control. The local authority solicitor, Police, Fire, Ambulance service and all have to agree before it's granted.

Some interesting comments above though

 

[14_dollars]

I'd highlight @Jacko93 that the 52,888 capacity already includes "safe standing" rail seating in the south stand lower tier (home end) and in the lower section of the away end in the north east corner.



It's therefore not really a feasible to plan to significantly increase capacity at BMD further using "safe standing" as that capacity increase is already included.

It's going to need the roof taking off and increase the size of the tiers to really boost it further IMHO

View attachment 277072
View attachment 277073

I seem to recall that the stadium has been designed to be re-configured should the safe standing regulations change in the future?

The safe standing ratio is currently 1:1 (one person standing per seat) but there was talk of the ratio being increased to 1.5:1 (effectively three people could then stand for every two seats).

 

[Damo_1878]

I seem to recall that the stadium has been designed to be re-configured should the safe standing regulations change in the future?

The safe standing ratio is currently 1:1 (one person standing per seat) but there was talk of the ratio being increased to 1.5:1 (effectively three people could then stand for every two seats).

Yeah mate, I linked the discussions from last June 2023 on here in my followup post above.

Tom reckons it's 1.3 to 1.5 maximum from the SGSA green book. But like I said earlier, you have to convince building control, police, fire, ambulance and local authority legal etc. The SGSA is guidance and recommendations.

My old man said NO, and you'll get conservative views on safety, so think lower end ratio if granted. Minimum not maximum.

 

[14_dollars]

Yeah mate, I linked the discussions from last June 2023 on here in my followup post above.

Tom reckons it's 1.3 to 1.5 maximum from the SGSA green book. But like I said earlier, you have to convince building control, police, fire, ambulance and local authority legal etc. The SGSA is guidance and recommendations.

My old man said NO, and you'll get conservative views on safety, so think lower end ratio if granted. Minimum not maximum.

Ah just seen your follow up note.

I agree that any capacity increase is unlikely at least for a few years.