Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[mkrudden]

Can't watch that right now. In the interests of keeping the debate going, what point are you making from the vid mate? (Being serious btw, not difficult!)

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

lol "Even their ultras have God damn zimmer frames"

 

[Dymak]

Rather it be with this new one than a recycled bottler who never won F all in 11 years, but was given the longest rope because he was safe.

Shame our fans turned on Martinez immediately after he drew his first three games in charge...even though overall they got behind him in that first season there was always an air of waiting for the worst. When it happened in Martinez's 2nd season the negativity was off the charts...something Moyes never faced in 11 years even though he had loads of crap starts and never won a goddamn thing. Massive double standard with our fans overrating the expectations of key players who are just learning the Premier League.

We don't deserve good things...we will piss and moan about them too.

You don't know what you are talking about. There was plenty of Moyes Out sentiment over the years. He was under pressure the immediate season after he took us to a Champions League qualifier, we lost 4-0 at Villa on boxing day and loads wanted him out right then. We had a bottom half finish in 11th place that season, which was something that was never repeated again during the rest of Moyes tenure, and yet he was still castigated with all this '7th placed trophy' nonsense. There was Moyes out sentiment when we lost to Liverpool in the Semi-Final as well.

Moyes managed to shut his nay-sayers up time after time. So we would have a slow start but we would finish 7th. And this was all at a time when we were totally skint and at the bottom of the net spend league table. Vilifying Moyes for not winning a trophy during his tenure is totally ignorant to the reality of that period. We were skint, the top four were miles stronger than everyone else, and we quite frankly had no right being the best of the rest on numerous occasions because Moyes and Everton were working under some of the biggest constraints in the league.

Expectation has always been high at Everton and so it should be. It certainly shouldn't be downgraded at a time in which the playing field has finally been levelled. If you don't like our moaning Evertonian ways, and you think demanding a top half finish means we have delusions of entitlement, then I suggest that you go and select another random club to follow, because Everton have always been like that, and they probably always will be.

 

[mkrudden]

I like Eddie Howe and respect the work he has done at Bournemouth. However you make a good point, would he attract the players to take us to the next level? I've no doubt he would get the players currently at the club performing better than they currently are, but a bigger, higher profile manager, with money to spend would see us attract higher quality players.

What has Eddie Howe done in his career that RM hasn't? Serious q

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

What has Eddie Howe done in his career that RM hasn't? Serious q

Got his team to hold onto a two-goal advantage and win, maybe?

 

[mkrudden]

Got his team to hold onto a two-goal advantage and win, maybe?

Tony Pulis did that a few weeks ago didn't he?

#TeamTony

 

[ianefc]

What has Eddie Howe done in his career that RM hasn't? Serious q

Managed Bournemouth and Burnley.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You don't know what you are talking about. There was plenty of Moyes Out sentiment over the years. He was under pressure the immediate season after he took us to a Champions League qualifier, we lost 4-0 at Villa on boxing day and loads wanted him out right then. We had a bottom half finish in 11th place that season, which was something that was never repeated again during the rest of Moyes tenure, and yet he was still castigated with all this '7th placed trophy' nonsense. There was Moyes out sentiment when we lost to Liverpool in the Semi-Final as well.

Moyes managed to shut his nay-sayers up time after time. So we would have a slow start but we would finish 7th. And this was all at a time when we were totally skint and at the bottom of the net spend league table. Vilifying Moyes for not winning a trophy during his tenure is totally ignorant to the reality of that period. We were skint, the top four were miles stronger than everyone else, and we quite frankly had no right being the best of the rest on numerous occasions because Moyes and Everton were working under some of the biggest restraints in the league.

Expectation has always been high at Everton and so it should be. It certainly shouldn't be downgraded at a time in which the playing field has finally been levelled. If you don't like our moaning Evertonian ways, and you think demanding a top half finish means we have delusions of entitlement, then I suggest that you go and select another random club to follow. Because Everton have always been like that, and they probably always will be.

Great post, the futility of those comparing Moyes' second season with Martinez's as evidence for RM being up to the job. Completely different economic circumstances, completely different squads, completely different managerial briefs, completely different PL environment.

RM is now ultimately suffering because Moyes raised expectation levels to one where 7th was seen as a failure. I never had a problem with that as Everton should always aspire to more, but Martibez's huge underachievement is putting into light what a good job Moyes did with the resources we had.

 

[mkrudden]

You don't know what you are talking about. There was plenty of Moyes Out sentiment over the years. He was under pressure the immediate season after he took us to a Champions League qualifier, we lost 4-0 at Villa on boxing day and loads wanted him out right then. We had a bottom half finish in 11th place that season, which was something that was never repeated again during the rest of Moyes tenure, and yet he was still castigated with all this '7th placed trophy' nonsense. There was Moyes out sentiment when we lost to Liverpool in the Semi-Final as well.

Moyes managed to shut his nay-sayers up time after time. So we would have a slow start but we would finish 7th. And this was all at a time when we were totally skint and at the bottom of the net spend league table. Vilifying Moyes for not winning a trophy during his tenure is totally ignorant to the reality of that period. We were skint, the top four were miles stronger than everyone else, and we quite frankly had no right being the best of the rest on numerous occasions because Moyes and Everton were working under some of the biggest restraints in the league.

Expectation has always been high at Everton and so it should be. It certainly shouldn't be downgraded at a time in which the playing field has finally been levelled. If you don't like our moaning Evertonian ways, and you think demanding a top half finish means we have delusions of entitlement, then I suggest that you go and select another random club to follow, because Everton have always been like that, and they probably always will be.

"You don't know what you're talking about". Great opening within the spirits of good natured debate.

On Moyes, he was never under the pressure that RM was after season 2.

Martinez, his personality, his first season and the jealousy of others teams has ramped up the pressure on him. Unfairly some, like me, would say.

 

[mkrudden]

Managed Bournemouth and Burnley.

lollol

 

[rochdaleblue]

What has Eddie Howe done in his career that RM hasn't? Serious q

I respect the job he has done with a 'small club'. He is currently on the same points total with us, with a playing squad that is inferior to us in size and quantity. He has got the best out of his players at his disposal, something Martinez has failed to do in the last 2 seasons.

 

[Saint Domingo]

"You don't know what you're talking about". Great opening within the spirits of good natured debate.

On Moyes, he was never under the pressure that RM was after season 2.

Martinez, his personality, his first season and the jealousy of others teams has ramped up the pressure on him. Unfairly some, like me, would say.

Never underperformed in the league to the extent Martinez has two seasons in a row. Even the second season 17th, we'd been safe all season and that had been seen as improvement given the state of the squad and how it had battled relegation most of the preceding years.

As for Martinez's replacement I'd like to see Howe have a few seasons at Bournemouth first. If he can move them from a relegation threatened team to one challenging Europe (which Moyes did), then maybe he could be considered. If they go back down then we need to look at bigger names. I'd want us to go for an ambitious name. Mourinho in a perfect world but he's probably beyond our reach. Plenty of top managers out there though who would jump at the chance of a secure job at the top end of the premier league on a huge salary with good financial backing.

 

[mkrudden]

I respect the job he has done with a 'small club'. He is currently on the same points total with us, with a playing squad that is inferior to us in size and quantity. He has got the best out of his players at his disposal, something Martinez has failed to do in the last 2 seasons.

But he's won nothing.
Each to their own but it's a swerve from me.

 

[ijjysmith]

I respect the job he has done with a 'small club'. He is currently on the same points total with us, with a playing squad that is inferior to us in size and quantity. He has got the best out of his players at his disposal, something Martinez has failed to do in the last 2 seasons.

Mike Walker got more out of his Norwich players than the Everton team and manager of that time too.

That went well.

 

[Dymak]

"You don't know what you're talking about". Great opening within the spirits of good natured debate.

On Moyes, he was never under the pressure that RM was after season 2.

Martinez, his personality, his first season and the jealousy of others teams has ramped up the pressure on him. Unfairly some, like me, would say.

Moyes and Martinez' Everton careers started in totally different eras. It is ridiculous, and indeed ignorant, to apply the level of expectation in 2003 to a 2015 Everton side. Moyes joined Everton at a time when finishing 11th would have meant an improvement, Martinez is operating in a time when 11th placed finishes represent significant regression from just a few years ago.

Do you think Moyes wouldn't be under pressure if he had overseen the regression that we are currently experiencing under Martinez? Of course he would! People were vilifying him for only achieving a '7th placed trophy'. That's the heat you get at a big club like Everton, and if Martinez can't take the heat, then he needs to get out of the kitchen.