Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[rochdaleblue]

But he's won nothing.
Each to their own but it's a swerve from me.

I agree he hasn't won anything (but I still respect his achievements) like I did with Martinez when he won the cup with Wigan. However we now need a proven winner to utilise the talent within our squad at present and attract higher calibre players to the club.

 

[mkrudden]

Never underperformed in the league to the extent Martinez has two seasons in a row. Even the second season 17th, we'd been safe all season and that had been seen as improvement given the state of the squad and how it had battled relegation most of the preceding years.

As for Martinez's replacement I'd like to see Howe have a few seasons at Bournemouth first. If he can move them from a relegation threatened team to one challenging Europe (which Moyes did), then maybe he could be considered. If they go back down then we need to look at bigger names. I'd want us to go for an ambitious name. Mourinho in a perfect world but he's probably beyond our reach. Plenty of top managers out there though who would jump at the chance of a secure job at the top end of the premier league on a huge salary with good financial backing.

He didn't underperform because he beat his underdog drum repeatedly for 11 years. We all believed him, me included.

Martinez has raised the expectation, told us money is no excuse not to succeed. He's falling foul of an expectation he created, that you and I bought into.

Mourinho would be brilliant, yes, but I fear the club he inevitably leaves us with 4 years post-arrival.

The issue for me is there is a severe lack of proven, quality managers who are interested in a 5 year plan. I like that about our team, our loyalty to managers and their long term visions.

Saying that, I'd quite like Pellegrini - good football and protects his players ferociously. Karanka plays good football but has won nothing.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

But he's won nothing.
Each to their own but it's a swerve from me.

Nor had moyles when he came. He did better than the previous manager who'd won trophies (Albeit in scotland)

 

[mkrudden]

Moyes and Martinez' Everton careers started in totally different eras. It is ridiculous, and indeed ignorant, to apply the level of expectation in 2003 to a 2015 Everton side. Moyes joined Everton at a time when finishing 11th would have meant an improvement, Martinez is operating in a time when 11th placed finishes represent significant regression from just a few years ago.

Do you think Moyes wouldn't be under pressure if he had overseen the regression that we are currently experiencing under Martinez? Of course he would! People were vilifying him for only achieving a '7th placed trophy'. That's the heat you get at a big club like Everton, and if he can't take the heat, then he needs to get out of the kitchen.

Even today David Moyes would have continued to quash expectation. It's a personality trait that his teams also showcase: let the opponents have it and lets see what we can do about it.

Wba had more possession than Utd at old Trafford. West Brom.

He was a fantastic manager for us but his attitude towards us created the glass ceiling as much as any financial constraints after the first 5 years.

 

[mkrudden]

Nor had moyles when he came. He did better than the previous manager who'd won trophies (Albeit in scotland)

And Moyes didn't in 11 years.
Says it all.
At this moment Eddie Howe is not ready.

 

[Dymak]

Even today David Moyes would have continued to quash expectation. It's a personality trait that his teams also showcase: let the opponents have it and lets see what we can do about it.

Wba had more possession than Utd at old Trafford. West Brom.

He was a fantastic manager for us but his attitude towards us created the glass ceiling as much as any financial constraints after the first 5 years.

The point is that expectations have been lowered under Martinez, and that they were actually higher under Moyes.

 

[mkrudden]

I agree he hasn't won anything (but I still respect his achievements) like I did with Martinez when he won the cup with Wigan. However we now need a proven winner to utilise the talent within our squad at present and attract higher calibre players to the club.

If we bin RM, I agree a winner is needed.

I respect Howe, can't see how anyone wouldn't, but he isn't a winner. Yet.

 

[mkrudden]

I agree he hasn't won anything (but I still respect his achievements) like I did with Martinez when he won the cup with Wigan. However we now need a proven winner to utilise the talent within our squad at present and attract higher calibre players to the club.

If we bin RM, I agree a winner is needed.

I respect Howe, can't see how anyone wouldn't, but he isn't a winner. Yet.

 

[degsy]

Spot on mate. There's a terrible stink of bullying about all this. A lynch mob mentality. And for what? Three seasons in which our manager has provided our best ever PL total; taken us to the latter stages of two cups; has us playing some great football; assembled a squad of steadily improving quality in depth.

...the same people hounding Roberto are largely the same people who supported for 11 years the crushingly unsuccessful hoofball served up by the dullard Moyes. Double standards.

They won't get away with it. They won't get their way.

That davek eh; still playing the - if Martinez goes the only option WILL MUST and CAN only be 'the crushingly unsuccessful hoofball...dullard Moyes' - card.

I was not a fan of his methods for those last 6 years, but you have to say those last few years were all in the 5th to 8 th range.

But all we have done was to swap a dour inflexible manager who could've done better with a tweak here and there, for a personable inflexible manager etc. etc. etc.

The same people hounding Roberto are largely etc etc ...and you can prove this vaulting all the usual suspects??? No? so isn't sent down via a burning bush or what ever. It's just opinion until you do...and save yourself time vaulting me for a Moyes supporter...I wasn't.

but yours increasingly seems to be of the toxic type., you spew out well crafted and plausible inflammatory bile.

The only stink here is the hypocritical, pot calling kettle black stink, that's been a major factor in thread bans and thread locks. you ( and other copy cats ) cause then throw your pinnies over your heads and run away screaming of what 'all them others' have done ( Oh the humanity )


and the thing is that although I think he ought to go, I'm getting the feeling that Moshiri will be taking a bit of a back seat to suss out the Investment / ground rebuild / mrketing etc. bit of the train set and leave Bill to play with the footballing side of he train set.

For some reason you seem to have a lot of, for want of a better word - 'cred' with 'the great and the good' on this site, you might need to watch you don't go to that well to often and find it dry with your martinez-esque inflexibility.

just sayin like.

just sayin like.

 

[rochdaleblue]

Mike Walker got more out of his Norwich players than the Everton team and manager of that time too.

That went well.

Fair enough. However I for one didn't want walker at the time. I wanted joe Royle who was doing a similar job to walker at Oldham, but who was Everton through and through and understood the size of the club and expectations of its fans. But it was obviously a mistake by the board at the time to appoint walker, but Everton with walker and a number of other big clubs with their managers, have failed with managers, who seemingly where doing better jobs at other football clubs, but ultimately failed at their new clubs.

 

[mkrudden]

The point is that expectations have been lowered under Martinez, and that they were actually higher under Moyes.

How?
When was it an expectation to finish 4th or even 6th under moyes? Never.

"Lets get to 40 points"
"Knife to a gun fight"
"Just wanted to get out of there alive"

He quashed all expectancy, blaming finances.

Complete opposite under RM. The major criticism he is getting is his team is failing to live up to the hype HE has created.

"Money isn't the only way to achieve success"
"Everton should be winning titles"

 

[ijjysmith]

Fair enough. However I for one didn't want walker at the time. I wanted joe Royle who was doing a similar job to walker at Oldham, but who was Everton through and through and understood the size of the club and expectations of its fans. But it was obviously a mistake by the board at the time to appoint walker, but Everton with walker and a number of other big clubs with their managers, have failed with managers, who seemingly where doing better jobs at other football clubs, but ultimately failed at their new clubs.

I was only a nipper at the time and didn't want Walker either to be fair!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

He quashed all expectancy, blaming finances.

Complete opposite under RM.

Yep. Moyles blamed finances.

Martinez blames everything else because he knows he's got dough.

 

[mkrudden]

Yep. Moyles blamed finances.

Martinez blames everything else because he knows he's got dough.

Regardless and with respect, it cannot be argued that the expectancy under Moyes was higher. He did everything he could to downplay the notion that Everton could and should be regularly aspiring to greatness.

 

[DrEFC]

And Moyes didn't in 11 years.
Says it all.
At this moment Eddie Howe is not ready.

Would you give Martinez 11 years mate?