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Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

Who would you want?

  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 302 17.0%

  • David Moyes

    Votes: 56 3.2%

  • Manuel Pellegrini

    Votes: 152 8.6%

  • Ronald Koeman

    Votes: 286 16.1%

  • Other (please state below)

    Votes: 109 6.1%

  • Unai Emery

    Votes: 870 49.0%
  • Total voters
    1,775
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Zatara said:
Wage bill 2014 joint 9th
Wage bill 2015 11th

Thats the benchmark for league placing.
Click to expand...

Does it not show a sign of a good manager to get more out of the team then the wage bill position....? Am sure martinez remit when he joined was not to lower the wage bill or the lowest in the league - and for what its worth - i believe our wage bill is higher now then before, disregarding what the rest of the league has spent.
 
Zatara said:
Baines= £12mil bid from Utd (never increased)
Coleman = no bids
Jags £10mil bid from arsenal
Mirallas £6mil bid from west ham

Barkley people wanted to accept £10mil for him
Stones never had a game

So theres the "value" i suppose.
Click to expand...

Mirallas - 6m bid from West Ham - 2 years after martinez joined when he had effectively sidelined the player meaning his value had decreased you mean?
Baines - 12m bid that was rejected for being derisory - so the club obviously valued him much much higher than 12m - so the 20m value he was worth is about accurate, we had rejected overtures under Moyes as our manager higher than 12m in the past.

No ones bid on Sergio Aguerro btw, so using your logic it means he has no value? Coleman was frequently linked by media who constantly try to undersell our players and are tipped off frequently by clubs like Man U and Chelsea to ease the process - the value was 15-20m oin those reports

But you stated the squad had limited value mate, you have been shown to be plainly wrong, we sold Anichebe, Jelavic and Naismith for a total of 21m, we sold Fellaini for 28m, Stones and Barkley where both here and both recognized as being very good prospects for the future with a high value in years to come.

Show me all the reports stating that at the time Martinez took over he was taking over a poor quality side with little value?

Did he have work to do when he took over bringing in some fresh blood - ofc he did - has he icnreased the quality of the side over the last three years by players he has brought in... Now that is something you can quation hugely, Lukaku aside we are left with a collection of decent prospects he has brought in and a few players who can do a job

As for comparing quality of players, heres a little sample of Moyes players in his last season compared to Martinez players who have effectively taken their roles in the squad/starting team
How good is McCarthy would he get in any top 6 side - is he any better than fellaini was before Martinez took over?
How good is Barry - would he get in any top 6 side
How good is Mori - would he get in any top 6 side - is he any better than Distin was in 2012/13 shortly before Martinez took over?
Is Deulofeu three years after first arriving any better a player than Mirallas was in 2012/13 shortly before Martinez took over?
Is Cleverley any better than Osman who you could say he has taken over from?
Is Lennon any better than Pienaar was?
Is Kone any better than Jelavic?
Is Naisse any better than Anichebe?
 
Saint Domingo said:
You're flogging a dead horse with this one. I could ha e bought your argument around 2011, we'd sold off Arteta Pienaar and Yakubu was ruined after injury. Moyes' squad refresh in his last few seasons was great though. Gibson, Jelavic, Mirallas and Naismith all in for the first team. Stones brought in, Barkley and Garbutt promoted in and around the first team.

Martinez had nothing to complain about with his handover. Sadly his first few bits of trading were poor. He sold off Jelavic and Anichebe for Kone and Fellaini for McCarthy and Barry (decent but neither make the impact Fellaini had for us). It was only when Lukaku came in that the first transfer window was rescued.

He got left two huge prodigies in Stones and Barkley, a massive cash cow in Fellaini, and a load of players in their prime.

Flogging a dead horse.
Click to expand...

Always remember reading somewhere that the mark of a great manager was being able to rebuild his squad after it had hit the wall - something Ferguson did 3-4 times at least, the sign of a bad manager is not being able to build a squad to begin with - that is how martinez is best described
 

Zatara said:
Wage bill 2014 joint 9th
Wage bill 2015 11th

Thats the benchmark for league placing.
Click to expand...

Leicester City disagree...

So in theory you#re Moyes was a better than manager then; he got more out of his team and finshed higher than the wage bill predicted.

In reality its not a benchmark, is it? Its a theory based on nothing, well if we spend the 12th most then we should be the 12th best team. Good managers can motivate players and get them running through walls.
 
Coffee and TV said:
De Telegraaf reckon Van Gaal is staying at United
Click to expand...

Mourinho
Pelligrini
Mancini
Emre
Low
Hiddink

would take any of those every day over Martinez

Cocu, De Boer and a host of others as well but the above ones are all quality and obtainable if circumstances go right and Moshiri is really trying to make a statement of what his ambitions for this club are
 

Saint Domingo said:
You're flogging a dead horse with this one. I could ha e bought your argument around 2011, we'd sold off Arteta Pienaar and Yakubu was ruined after injury. Moyes' squad refresh in his last few seasons was great though. Gibson, Jelavic, Mirallas and Naismith all in for the first team. Stones brought in, Barkley and Garbutt promoted in and around the first team.

Martinez had nothing to complain about with his handover. Sadly his first few bits of trading were poor. He sold off Jelavic and Anichebe for Kone and Fellaini for McCarthy and Barry (decent but neither make the impact Fellaini had for us). It was only when Lukaku came in that the first transfer window was rescued.

He got left two huge prodigies in Stones and Barkley, a massive cash cow in Fellaini, and a load of players in their prime.

Flogging a dead horse.
Click to expand...
I think the actual truth is more in the middle of you and Zat here.

Sure Distin and Howard had great seasons with RM first year but they then fell off a cliff.
Same with Pienaar.
Heitinga was an enigma and rightfully moved on.
Thomas Hiztlsperger was moved on pre-Martinez and rightfully so.
Same with Jan Mucha.
Where is Tony Hibbert?
Vellios moved on - not up to it.
Phil Neville - for all his inadequacies on the pitch, he was a solid leader
Jelavic turned out to be cack.
Anichebe the same.
Fellaini was always going to go, good player though obviously.
Osman faded even further after RM season 1.
Gibson is about his match fit on a regular basis as my old man.

From all of the above, only Fellaini would be still playing regularly now for us. So that's 14 players who either before, during or after season 1 of RM were rightfully moved on/deteriorated to the point where 38 games out of them was impossible.

Regardless of whether RM has adequately replaced them, they needed replacing during/after his first season. That might not have been as apparent at the time, but it's clear now after the event.

The rebuilding job he was left with was absolutely huge. He's actually done a pretty fantastic job at doing it too, piece by piece, window by window.

It's this reason why I've not a plotter yet. You throw this in with the amount of inexperienced/younger players he has introduced - in line with the previous financial model he was told to work within - and you're going to get really inconsistent results.

That said, i'm getting sick of losing.
 
nsno-chris said:
I heard that as well, hes planned the preseason and won the battle with the commercial arm of United, getting down from 4 games to 2 games in China. They seem to be giving him 1 more year
Click to expand...
I thought the deal with Mourinho was already sorted but if not (and it looks like it's not) then that's a world class manager available this summer. Apparently Valencia are after him though.
 
nsno-chris said:
I heard that as well, hes planned the preseason and won the battle with the commercial arm of United, getting down from 4 games to 2 games in China. They seem to be giving him 1 more year
Click to expand...

Gil, Charlton, Ferguson against Woodward and the Glazers yes men, i know who my money is on winning that battle within the club
 
bluestevon said:
Mourinho
Pelligrini
Mancini
Emre
Low
Hiddink

would take any of those every day over Martinez

Cocu, De Boer and a host of others as well but the above ones are all quality and obtainable if circumstances go right and Moshiri is really trying to make a statement of what his ambitions for this club are
Click to expand...
Just don't like Mancini. Was (I'm being reserved here) a tit to us when he managed City.
 
mkrudden said:
I think the actual truth is more in the middle of you and Zat here.

Sure Distin and Howard had great seasons with RM first year but they then fell off a cliff.
Same with Pienaar.
Heitinga was an enigma and rightfully moved on.
Thomas Hiztlsperger was moved on pre-Martinez and rightfully so.
Same with Jan Mucha.
Where is Tony Hibbert?
Vellios moved on - not up to it.
Phil Neville - for all his inadequacies on the pitch, he was a solid leader
Jelavic turned out to be cack.
Anichebe the same.
Fellaini was always going to go, good player though obviously.
Osman faded even further after RM season 1.
Gibson is about his match fit on a regular basis as my old man.

From all of the above, only Fellaini would be still playing regularly now for us. So that's 14 players who either before, during or after season 1 of RM were rightfully moved on/deteriorated to the point where 38 games out of them was impossible.

Regardless of whether RM has adequately replaced them, they needed replacing during/after his first season. That might not have been as apparent at the time, but it's clear now after the event.

The rebuilding job he was left with was absolutely huge. He's actually done a pretty fantastic job at doing it too, piece by piece, window by window.

It's this reason why I've not a plotter yet. You throw this in with the amount of inexperienced/younger players he has introduced - in line with the previous financial model he was told to work within - and you're going to get really inconsistent results.

That said, i'm getting sick of losing.
Click to expand...


Here is a little quandry though mate, how many of the odler players went off a cliff maybe a year or two earlier than they would have udner Moyes? Squad generally looks massively unfit compared to how it used to be - even the younger players run out of gas after not doing much running, honestly think Martinez training doesn't lead to a good engine and for older players that will tell more dramaticilly - look at how Milan and their system ensured their players aged very well into their mid 30's

Don't think it can be overlooked that Barry aside (who looks to be a utter oddity in that regard) - every player over the age of 30 looks to have deteriorate from a little to massively under Martinez
 

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