Next manager discussion (poll reset 21/05/2016)

[Goat]

I'm reliably informed this is immaculate. We have the 8th highest wage bill and 10th highest spend and when you consider a 1/5 of our strongest line up IMHO would consist of Stones and Barkley who cost the club in fees abar £3m it's a nothing point.

Vardy FCs wage bill ranks them 17th.

For the record.

Seems I wrote the numbers down I may as well share, all figures are rough maths, my math is terrible, so there might be mistakes, its just a rough idea I did cos I was bored.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-wage-bills-club-by-club/

Wages.

NO# CLUB 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16
3 Chelsea £190m £192.7m £215.6m
1 Manchester United £187m £215.8m £203 m
2 Manchester City £216m £205m £193.8m
4 Arsenal £166.4m £180.4m £192m
5 Liverpool £140m £144m £152m
6 Tottenham £112m £100.4m £110.5m
7 Newcastle United £68m £78.3m £75.8m
8 Everton £66m £69.3m £74.7m
9 Stoke City £55m £60.6m £72.3m
10 Sunderland £55m £69.5m £71m
11 West Ham United £60m £63.9m £69.5m
12 Aston Villa £74m £69.3m £65.1m
13 West Bromwich £49m £65.4m £68.5m
14 Southampton £47m £55.2m £59.5m
15 Swansea City £55m £48.1m £51m
16 Crystal Palace £45.7m £54.3m
17 Leicester City £36.6m £48.2m
18 Norwich City £37m
19 Watford £29m
20 Bournemouth £25m

Net spend since Martinez took over :

Arse 102m
Villa 32m
Toon 70m
Booringmouth 37m
Chelsea 63m
Palace 64m
Everton 47m
Vardy FC 49m
Vermin 86m
City 250m
United 188m
Norwich 33m
Southampton 12m
Stoke 19m
Sunderland 36m
Spurs MINUS 24m
Watford 34m
WBA 37m
West Ham 78m

 

[JammyP]

Couldn't even see him giving that job offer any consideration whatsoever.

ours, or theirs?

 

[ianefc]

Vardy FCs wage bill ranks them 17th.

For the record.

Seems I wrote the numbers down I may as well share, all figures are rough maths, my math is terrible, so there might be mistakes, its just a rough idea I did cos I was bored.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-wage-bills-club-by-club/

Wages.

NO# CLUB 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16
3 Chelsea £190m £192.7m £215.6m
1 Manchester United £187m £215.8m £203 m
2 Manchester City £216m £205m £193.8m
4 Arsenal £166.4m £180.4m £192m
5 Liverpool £140m £144m £152m
6 Tottenham £112m £100.4m £110.5m
7 Newcastle United £68m £78.3m £75.8m
8 Everton £66m £69.3m £74.7m
9 Stoke City £55m £60.6m £72.3m
10 Sunderland £55m £69.5m £71m
11 West Ham United £60m £63.9m £69.5m
12 Aston Villa £74m £69.3m £65.1m
13 West Bromwich £49m £65.4m £68.5m
14 Southampton £47m £55.2m £59.5m
15 Swansea City £55m £48.1m £51m
16 Crystal Palace £45.7m £54.3m
17 Leicester City £36.6m £48.2m
18 Norwich City £37m
19 Watford £29m
20 Bournemouth £25m

Net spend since Martinez took over :

Arse 102m
Villa 32m
Toon 70m
Booringmouth 37m
Chelsea 63m
Palace 64m
Everton 47m
Vardy FC 49m
Vermin 86m
City 250m
United 188m
Norwich 33m
Southampton 12m
Stoke 19m
Sunderland 36m
Spurs MINUS 24m
Watford 34m
WBA 37m
West Ham 78m

Doesn't make for pleasant reading

 

[Goat]

Doesn't make for pleasant reading

The wage table alone blows out the water the claims of wage bills having ANY impact on league placing.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Baines 28yo - turned down 15-20m for him
Coleman 24 yo linked around the time with 15-20m bids
Jagielka 30yo knocked back arsenal interest the year before at around 10m
Oviedo 23yo
Browning 19yo
Garbutt 20yo
Stones 19yo

Barkley 19yo
Fellaini 25yo sold him for 28m
Mirallas 25yo linked repeatedly with 12m type moves
Gibson 25yo
Pienaar 30yo
Osman 31yo

Naismith 26yo sold for 8.5m
Anichebe 25yo sold for 6m
Jelavic 27yo sold for 6.5m

so age wise your talking crap mate, not one fo those platyers age wise when martinez took over would be considered a lot past their peak, most are either younger or in the prime age wise

Quality wise - yeah lacking a lot, but then again this is the same team moyes had quality wise year on year out whilst finishing 5-6th

resale value - well just listed 4 players we sold for 50m, the two full backs had a value of 40m+ combined, Mirallas easily would hav efetched 10-15m around the time martinez took over as well

some absolute quality players in that team, a small squad yup, but trying to make out that martinez took over a team as old as fergusons united was is laughable. Moyes inheritted a United team whose defence all needed replacing as they'd gone at the same time, as evidenced by most of them now being retired or playing at relegation fodder teams, Martinez inherrited a team with 3 of the back 4 at the absolute peak age wise for their positions and has managed to have them performing terrible within two years

Baines= £12mil bid from Utd (never increased)
Coleman = no bids
Jags £10mil bid from arsenal
Mirallas £6mil bid from west ham

Barkley people wanted to accept £10mil for him
Stones never had a game

So theres the "value" i suppose.

You're flogging a dead horse with this one. I could ha e bought your argument around 2011, we'd sold off Arteta Pienaar and Yakubu was ruined after injury. Moyes' squad refresh in his last few seasons was great though. Gibson, Jelavic, Mirallas and Naismith all in for the first team. Stones brought in, Barkley and Garbutt promoted in and around the first team.

Martinez had nothing to complain about with his handover. Sadly his first few bits of trading were poor. He sold off Jelavic and Anichebe for Kone and Fellaini for McCarthy and Barry (decent but neither make the impact Fellaini had for us). It was only when Lukaku came in that the first transfer window was rescued.

He got left two huge prodigies in Stones and Barkley, a massive cash cow in Fellaini, and a load of players in their prime.

Flogging a dead horse.

You said possible resale value, not actual bids.

You're talking a bit of rubbish on this. The team Moyes left was strong, a good vary age of youth and experience. This rebuilding job you keep banging on about is all pie in the sky, it's not needed. Its like every other manager, replace like for like and what he wants; it was not however a total overhaul that was required as you keep suggesting

Mirallas - 6m bid from West Ham - 2 years after martinez joined when he had effectively sidelined the player meaning his value had decreased you mean?
Baines - 12m bid that was rejected for being derisory - so the club obviously valued him much much higher than 12m - so the 20m value he was worth is about accurate, we had rejected overtures under Moyes as our manager higher than 12m in the past.

No ones bid on Sergio Aguerro btw, so using your logic it means he has no value? Coleman was frequently linked by media who constantly try to undersell our players and are tipped off frequently by clubs like Man U and Chelsea to ease the process - the value was 15-20m oin those reports

But you stated the squad had limited value mate, you have been shown to be plainly wrong, we sold Anichebe, Jelavic and Naismith for a total of 21m, we sold Fellaini for 28m, Stones and Barkley where both here and both recognized as being very good prospects for the future with a high value in years to come.

Show me all the reports stating that at the time Martinez took over he was taking over a poor quality side with little value?

Did he have work to do when he took over bringing in some fresh blood - ofc he did - has he icnreased the quality of the side over the last three years by players he has brought in... Now that is something you can quation hugely, Lukaku aside we are left with a collection of decent prospects he has brought in and a few players who can do a job

As for comparing quality of players, heres a little sample of Moyes players in his last season compared to Martinez players who have effectively taken their roles in the squad/starting team
How good is McCarthy would he get in any top 6 side - is he any better than fellaini was before Martinez took over?
How good is Barry - would he get in any top 6 side
How good is Mori - would he get in any top 6 side - is he any better than Distin was in 2012/13 shortly before Martinez took over?
Is Deulofeu three years after first arriving any better a player than Mirallas was in 2012/13 shortly before Martinez took over?
Is Cleverley any better than Osman who you could say he has taken over from?
Is Lennon any better than Pienaar was?
Is Kone any better than Jelavic?
Is Naisse any better than Anichebe?

I'm getting really bored of seeing the same suspects hijacking threads to talk about squads and transfers.

This thread is clearly labelled as being about hypothetical replacements for the manager.

I'll be issuing off topic infractions next time.

 

[Goat]

I'm getting really bored of seeing the same suspects hijacking threads to talk about squads and transfers.

This thread is clearly labelled as being about hypothetical replacements for the manager.

I'll be issuing off topic infractions next time.

Soz abar me.

 

[bluestevon]

I'm getting really bored of seeing the same suspects hijacking threads to talk about squads and transfers.

This thread is clearly labelled as being about hypothetical replacements for the manager.

I'll be issuing off topic infractions next time.

Soz mate

anyway on topic, Martinez out and any of Mourinho/Pelligrini/Mancini/Emre/Cocu/De Boer in

 

[Goat]

Soz mate

anyway on topic, Martinez out and any of Mourinho/Pelligrini/Mancini/Emre/Cocu/De Boer in

The 2 dutch lads for me.

Both have their merits, both like to play good football, both like to use youth, both are proven winners.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I have no idea who, but I reckon Mosh will be bringing in a top European manager this summer to start the revolution.

Can't see Martinez being given the chance to spend his dosh this summer.

 

[Mickey]

According to this, http://www.coachworldranking.com/ , Bobby is 105th best manager in world football. That gives Moshy and the boys 104 possible replacements to look at.

 

[DualityNSNO]

According to this, http://www.coachworldranking.com/ , Bobby is 105th best manager in world football. That gives Moshy and the boys 104 possible replacements to look at.

Rafael at 19, Wenger at 20.

Okay.

 

[orly]

According to this, http://www.coachworldranking.com/ , Bobby is 105th best manager in world football. That gives Moshy and the boys 104 possible replacements to look at.

let's get this lad

Very easy nickname to abuse him with when it all goes wrongly

 

[bluestevon]

The 2 dutch lads for me.

Both have their merits, both like to play good football, both like to use youth, both are proven winners.

Being honest mate, all i know about either of them is a decent article on their tactical setups etc i found and posts on here, plus the fact they both happened to be boss players when i watched international footy

Thats enough for me to think they are both massive upgrades on the current bloke, likeable initially as he was Martinez has now spent 6 out of 7 years either fighting relgation or languishing in the bottom half of the table short of 40 points come mid april, that for me is not the sign of a manager with the winning mentality

More i think of him supposedly turning down the Liverpool job a few years back, the mroe i think he realised that he would be under pressure to produce wins and have people questioning some of his decisions so he swerved it until a job came along that didn't have the expectations - thankfully i hope that Moshiri taking us over has thrown all that out the window and we will become a club that does set expectations at all levels of the club for the employees

 

[Mickey]

Rafael at 19, Wenger at 20.

Okay.

Lol and Pulis is 109th. Jesus.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Being honest mate, all i know about either of them is a decent article on their tactical setups etc i found and posts on here, plus the fact they both happened to be boss players when i watched international footy

Thats enough for me to think they are both massive upgrades on the current bloke, likeable initially as he was Martinez has now spent 6 out of 7 years either fighting relgation or languishing in the bottom half of the table short of 40 points come mid april, that for me is not the sign of a manager with the winning mentality

More i think of him supposedly turning down the Liverpool job a few years back, the mroe i think he realised that he would be under pressure to produce wins and have people questioning some of his decisions so he swerved it until a job came along that didn't have the expectations - thankfully i hope that Moshiri taking us over has thrown all that out the window and we will become a club that does set expectations at all levels of the club for the employees

What I learned from watching the two teams play (including against each other, which was the prime example of my first point about Ajax):
Ajax (Frank) - against the bigger teams: on the counter, strong defence, lethal going forward, no-nonsense approach, wins a lot. Against smaller teams: domination, completely different approach, but still based on the strong defence and the no-nonsense approach. I really like it tbh.

PSV (Cocu) - tbh I'm not keen on him after watching them play a few times, their defence is kind of shaky, but still definitely better than ours. Likes the possession game it would seem, as well as short quick passes in the final third. It's very entertaining, but not always winning (see the results against Ajax in the past few meetings they've had).

Agreed on all else you've said though.