Just sat here praying that the Steelers get the Aiyuk trade done.
NFL 2024 Season
- Thread starter Moomin
- Start date
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
Ha ha ha
This is a joke surely? 10 qbs other than Mahomes could have won the Super Bowl for the Chiefs?
We had Alex Smith for years who was around the 10th best qb and got nowhere. Mahomes just continually comes up with the clutch plays again and again in a way that Lamar or Allen cannot.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
He didn’t have the best 2023 season, playoffs included!
This is like the LeBron should win MVP every year argument. He shouldn’t, he’s also the best player since Jordan and always has been. Both things are true.
And fwiw LeBron should get way more credit than any QB ever because he has to actually defend someone.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
Mahomes could only make the clutch plays because they weren’t completely out of the game after not scoring for 3 quarters. It’s just so annoying how people act like QBs play by themselves, including people who know a lot about the sport.
Eh no it isn't. The MVP award is there, and I agree Mahomes shouldn't get that every year. But has there ever been even a few minutes over the last 3 years where you've seriously had to consider who the best player in the league is?
There is no other quarterback currently playing that was getting that Chiefs offensive unit to the Superbowl. Nobody is saying he won it single-handedly, but his ability in the clutch is second only to Brady, and he may well surpass Brady in the coming years. The defence was awesome, they definitely wouldn't have won without them either, but the Ravens and 49ers had elite defensive units too. I'm not even sure Brady would have unlocked them with Mecole Hardman and Kadarius Toney.
njligernj
Player Valuation: £15m
Football (soccer) is almost back which means that football (football) is almost back too! Time for a multi response which everyone loves universally!
Just curious, do you factor in the stories which came out about every NFL QB (and every coach) saying that before "deflategate" literally every QB (aside from Kurt Warner apparently) did the same thing? By your logic you can't consider any QB prior to 2015 in the GOAT discussion -- so yeah I guess Mahomes wins by default. (Well ... actually Brady is tied for three wins with Mahomes since deflategate if you don't count deflategate.)
The idea that being a Jets fan is "following the crowd" is very funny. They would have been a more unexpected pick for a UK than the Bears by far. Bears were one of the first "UK teams" ... Giants have a much bigger UK following than Jets FWIW. Not saying you should have gone with Jets (they're cursed) but I feel bad for your mate as he likely doesn't have a lot of fellow J-E-T-S's.
Let me make the following pitch to any blues considering the NFL: pick any team you like, BUUUUUT, why in God's name would you want to add another Everton to your stress levels?
Also, is the team you are considering warm in winter? If the answer is no, in fact it's so cold you want to die, then why pick that team? Unless you never plan on actually going to see a game (or you wait for the Euro games) why not warm?
Chicago didn't win a lot in the past so to me they aren't Everton enough for that reason but overall, if you don't care about going somewhere warm, it's as good as any rando team to choose. Here's a description of the Bears owner: "As the matriarch of the Bears, Virginia Halas McCaskey has been recognized for her dedication and commitment to the team. She has been celebrated ... with tributes highlighting her enduring legacy and impact on the franchise. With a deep understanding of the team’s history and traditions, Virginia McCaskey has played a vital role in shaping the Bears’ identity and culture. Her leadership has been marked by a focus on stability, loyalty, and community involvement."
Yeah sounds a lot like Mosh.
Do you think people are remaining in their "dream like daze" because when Brady left NE they went into the toilet and fired the coach who (according to this theory) had more to do with the winning than Brady? Also Brady immediately won another SB with a new team. So those two facts from reality kind of take the shine off that take maybe?
There was a time in the NFL when Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won rings behind legendary team defenses. That was the time for this take. In fact, this was the dominant opinion at the time among journos that the game had changed and you didn't need an elite QB as much as a good defense (Bucs and Ravens all-time D recency bias). If you remember the early 00s, part of the reason things changed in the media was that everyone jumped on the "QBs are dead" bandwagon, thought Tampa 2 was going to shut down offenses forever ... and then Brady happened. People then got tired of being wrong every year.
I don't know if "we turned it into" or people are just following the facts. In recent years there has been a heavy bias toward elite QBs (in part due to the rule changes everyone complains about).
In the last ~25 years since Brad and Trent, the following QBs won:
Brady
Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Drew Brees
Aaron Rogers
Joe Flacco
Russell Wilson
Nick Foles
Stafford
Mahomes
It's a short list for over 20 SBs because Mahomes, Brady, Roethlisberger, and both Mannings repeated.
The only "system > QB" on the list are Foles as a slam dunk and then Flacco as arguable but sure take him too. Everyone else was elite when they won (I understand nobody rates Russell now ... he was). I don't see the case for not needing an elite QB, it seems like one of them has won almost every year? Big coincidence?
Just curious, do you factor in the stories which came out about every NFL QB (and every coach) saying that before "deflategate" literally every QB (aside from Kurt Warner apparently) did the same thing? By your logic you can't consider any QB prior to 2015 in the GOAT discussion -- so yeah I guess Mahomes wins by default. (Well ... actually Brady is tied for three wins with Mahomes since deflategate if you don't count deflategate.)
The idea that being a Jets fan is "following the crowd" is very funny. They would have been a more unexpected pick for a UK than the Bears by far. Bears were one of the first "UK teams" ... Giants have a much bigger UK following than Jets FWIW. Not saying you should have gone with Jets (they're cursed) but I feel bad for your mate as he likely doesn't have a lot of fellow J-E-T-S's.
Let me make the following pitch to any blues considering the NFL: pick any team you like, BUUUUUT, why in God's name would you want to add another Everton to your stress levels?
Also, is the team you are considering warm in winter? If the answer is no, in fact it's so cold you want to die, then why pick that team? Unless you never plan on actually going to see a game (or you wait for the Euro games) why not warm?
Chicago didn't win a lot in the past so to me they aren't Everton enough for that reason but overall, if you don't care about going somewhere warm, it's as good as any rando team to choose. Here's a description of the Bears owner: "As the matriarch of the Bears, Virginia Halas McCaskey has been recognized for her dedication and commitment to the team. She has been celebrated ... with tributes highlighting her enduring legacy and impact on the franchise. With a deep understanding of the team’s history and traditions, Virginia McCaskey has played a vital role in shaping the Bears’ identity and culture. Her leadership has been marked by a focus on stability, loyalty, and community involvement."
Yeah sounds a lot like Mosh.
Do you think people are remaining in their "dream like daze" because when Brady left NE they went into the toilet and fired the coach who (according to this theory) had more to do with the winning than Brady? Also Brady immediately won another SB with a new team. So those two facts from reality kind of take the shine off that take maybe?
There was a time in the NFL when Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won rings behind legendary team defenses. That was the time for this take. In fact, this was the dominant opinion at the time among journos that the game had changed and you didn't need an elite QB as much as a good defense (Bucs and Ravens all-time D recency bias). If you remember the early 00s, part of the reason things changed in the media was that everyone jumped on the "QBs are dead" bandwagon, thought Tampa 2 was going to shut down offenses forever ... and then Brady happened. People then got tired of being wrong every year.
I don't know if "we turned it into" or people are just following the facts. In recent years there has been a heavy bias toward elite QBs (in part due to the rule changes everyone complains about).
In the last ~25 years since Brad and Trent, the following QBs won:
Brady
Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Drew Brees
Aaron Rogers
Joe Flacco
Russell Wilson
Nick Foles
Stafford
Mahomes
It's a short list for over 20 SBs because Mahomes, Brady, Roethlisberger, and both Mannings repeated.
The only "system > QB" on the list are Foles as a slam dunk and then Flacco as arguable but sure take him too. Everyone else was elite when they won (I understand nobody rates Russell now ... he was). I don't see the case for not needing an elite QB, it seems like one of them has won almost every year? Big coincidence?
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
There are holes in it. Eli was never elite. Roethlisbergers best years were unquestionably when he wasn’t winning playoff games. Peyton won the SB in his worst season.
I think my take is QBs are floor setters more than ceiling raisers. Having a high floor always gives you a shot so when you do have those other pieces it allows you to be in a place to push over the top.
njligernj
Player Valuation: £15m
For the people who think it's the QBs, the fact that two of them won a SB after their peak years is something they think is on their side. That the potential for an elite QB to win (even when they're no longer elite) shows how important they are because "they just know how to win."
I think in some ways you and they are saying the same thing with the "floor setter" differentiation. I'm fine with that as a distinction ... but it still means you need one of them to win doesn't it? Even if you don't give them all the credit, you seem to be confirming you still can't win without one?
I thought it was (more) the system in late 90s/early 00's (which is when I first started watching). I think it's (more) QBs now. The facts of who ending up winning are what changed my opinion but YMMV. Just happy footballs is almost back! Are we doing predictions? Leaning toward Bucs-Bills because I am incapable of correctly predicting a matchup unless the Bucs are involved (Bucs-Raiders and Bucs-Chiefs).
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
Erm they were 10 down in each and every Super Bowl they won. he had to singlehandedly bring them back in all of them.
Mahomes won MVP in each of those wins as well. The only one the Chiefs lost he played a poor game.
I think that’s clear enough evidence to indicate they don’t win Super bowls without him.
You seem to think that he needs to operate like Harbaugh does by running up the score to prove his greatness?
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
JJ McCarthy out for the season
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
