Project restart discussion.

[catcherintherye]

Shoulda coulda woulda. Key point is last wasn’t & was never going to be binned. We were aligned on the morality of it all along, but I banged the “it will be completed drum” & faced much derision for it before being proved right.

Olympics already open to moving again and if the current situation gets worse, I wouldn’t be shocked if Euros start suggesting similar to accommodate, crowds, current seasons ending and conclusion to the CL.

Realistically that would be far more likely to be a months delay (which would suit everyone), but who knows what’s ahead.

Bear in mind, at present there is no venue agreed for next years Euros, with the 2020 venues re-applying, for a new tournament based on multiple crowd and covid scenarios

1- It could have very easily happened. Lots of leagues in lots of countries stopped. Even top leagues in this country (Scotland) stopped. They made a choice and a gamble. If this season is affected, it will have turned out to be a terribl, terrible mistake that was entirely avoidable. Of course they didn't, but they could have done.

2- I've not seen the Olympics. Obviously the Olympics is not working around national sporting windows in the same way. UEFA will really not want to wait further to complete a tournament. Having a Euro's months before a world cup would be farcical (and actually greatly reduce interest) and cancelling costs them money. All options are open, but if I'm UEFA, I want a pretty big payday to move the tournament again.

3- I believe a months delay may mean they can just about fiddle things around, not move too much and every could be happy. Anymore than 1 month and it is going to get very difficult. I believe this is why the league is desperate not to stop.

Ultimately the ineptitude, stupidity, short sightedness and cowardice of the governing bodies, in needlessly playing a summer circus after a season had effectively ended has caused a potentially very challenging situation. The governance of the game is appalling. Yesterdays behaviour from the PL, cancelling games without even consulting with ourselves underlines this.

 

[Goat]

Even top leagues in this country (Scotland) stopped.

Mate?

 

[catcherintherye]

Mate?

The top league of Scotland did stop.

 

[Goat]

The top league of Scotland did stop.

Top leagues tho?

 

[catcherintherye]

Top leagues tho?

Well I meant as in the top division of their country. It was more just to point out re starting last season with the summer circus was not the only option available to them.

 

[number4.]

Well I meant as in the top division of their country. It was more just to point out re starting last season with the summer circus was not the only option available to them.

I dont think anyone disagrees with you that there were other options, but at the end of the day, it was completed. Maybe (probably) it shouldn't have been, but that is consigned to history now.

What it does show is the PL will put cash-flow and contract above sporting fairness & I think it's fair to say UEFA are motivated by similar priorities. Hopefully the vaccine steers us to a course of normality soon, but if it doesn't, or a new mutation is immune to vacine for example, for me everything is on the table.

As it stands the Euros don't have a venue for next summer, anything and everything is open to change IMHO

 

[catcherintherye]

I dont think anyone disagrees with you that there were other options, but at the end of the day, it was completed. Maybe (probably) it shouldn't have been, but that is consigned to history now.

What it does show is the PL will put cash-flow and contract above sporting fairness & I think it's fair to say UEFA are motivated by similar priorities. Hopefully the vaccine steers us to a course of normality soon, but if it doesn't, or a new mutation is immune to vacine for example, for me everything is on the table.

As it stands the Euros don't have a venue for next summer, anything and everything is open to change IMHO

Well of course the decision is confined to history, but you seem to be suggesting any critical analysis of said decision, and it's consequences ought to be. I'm sorry but that's ludicrous. Given what we now have, it can and should be criticised.

 

[number4.]

Well of course the decision is confined to history, but you seem to be suggesting any critical analysis of said decision, and it's consequences ought to be. I'm sorry but that's ludicrous. Given what we now have, it can and should be criticised.

Of course there can be critique, but in the grand scheme of things it went very very well with little covid or incident. But that's not really the point at this stage.

The question now is if there is another long break, which seems more likely than ever, what next....

- 18 game season
- null and void 20/21
- Continue after the Euros
- Further movement of the Euros to accomodate delays across Europe
- Bin the FA Cup to free up slots for Leagues

these are just some of the ideas which might come into play

 

[catcherintherye]

Of course there can be critique, but in the grand scheme of things it went very very well with little covid or incident. But that's not really the point at this stage.

The question now is if there is another long break, which seems more likely than ever, what next....

- 18 game season
- null and void 20/21
- Continue after the Euros
- Further movement of the Euros to accomodate delays across Europe
- Bin the FA Cup to free up slots for Leagues

these are just some of the ideas which might come into play

But it didn't go well did it? The competition was poor and irrelevant. And the medium term consequences has been causing the following season to be a farce, ravaged with injuries and now a covid delay.

As for what can happen, who knows?

We should not be binning the FA Cup. As for the rest, pretty much all of them are going to be financially extremely damaging. I'll be frank, I don't know what to recommend. I had a solution, that would have minimised damage, financially and to the integrity of the game. They went in a different direction. We were told they had sorted it that none of the above would occur. Lets see them square this circle they've made for themselves.

 

[number4.]

But it didn't go well did it? The competition was poor and irrelevant. And the medium term consequences has been causing the following season to be a farce, ravaged with injuries and now a covid delay.

As for what can happen, who knows?

We should not be binning the FA Cup. As for the rest, pretty much all of them are going to be financially extremely damaging. I'll be frank, I don't know what to recommend. I had a solution, that would have minimised damage, financially and to the integrity of the game. They went in a different direction. We were told they had sorted it that none of the above would occur. Lets see them square this circle they've made for themselves.

Lot's of people would argue it did go well. Honoured TV deals, got the season over with little Covid disruption, relegation and promotion got sorted on the pitch, not the courts (although that Villa incident was ridiculous).

I personally agree the product was awful & that has continued this season. If 19/20 was binned, yes there would have been a better break (possibly too long) but non the less we would still be facing a lot of the same challenges this season, Covid remains unpredictable, Stadiums are empty and we have no idea how a 6-9 month break might have impacted injuries. Aside from that, you are completely ignore the impact on clubs if TV deals were not honoured, we have no idea how many clubs would have survived and the trickle down effect of sales of the likes of Ollie Wadkins, Ramsdale to name but a few.

For me I'm agreed on the FA Cup being sacrosanct, but I have no doubt it will be considered if the football leagues end up on hiatus, which looks more and more likely by the day. I don't have the answer, but I genuinely think anything and everything are on the table if things get as bleak as they might.

 

[catcherintherye]

Lot's of people would argue it did go well. Honoured TV deals, got the season over with little Covid disruption, relegation and promotion got sorted on the pitch, not the courts (although that Villa incident was ridiculous).

I personally agree the product was awful & that has continued this season. If 19/20 was binned, yes there would have been a better break (possibly too long) but non the less we would still be facing a lot of the same challenges this season, Covid remains unpredictable, Stadiums are empty and we have no idea how a 6-9 month break might have impacted injuries. Aside from that, you are completely ignore the impact on clubs if TV deals were not honoured, we have no idea how many clubs would have survived and the trickle down effect of sales of the likes of Ollie Wadkins, Ramsdale to name but a few.

For me I'm agreed on the FA Cup being sacrosanct, but I have no doubt it will be considered if the football leagues end up on hiatus, which looks more and more likely by the day. I don't have the answer, but I genuinely think anything and everything are on the table if things get as bleak as they might.

In the short term some benefits were gained yes.

But the medium term chaos that has followed, which lots of us predicted has rendered those marginal and relatively needless gains irrelevant.

I had a plan, that was workable and would have avoided this. Cancelling the oldest and most prestigious cup competition in the world woud be a horrendous moment for football, and just validate the pointlessness of what we did. We couldn't formalise the end of 1 competition that had effectively ended, but we will stop another one in it's entirity. Utterly stupid and bereft of any sporting integrity.


I have no real ideas of solutions. I can only add, I had a workable solutions and they went in their own direction, into a mess I told them would happen. They can fix it. Me personally I think European games should probably be knocked on the head for the season and play more domestic games in those slots, which we are going to need. Thats about all my wisdom can offer them at this point. The stupidity of the PL in not seeing fairly large obstacles on the horizon and it's willingness to drive into them is really only matched by this shambles of a government.

 

[number4.]

In the short term some benefits were gained yes.

But the medium term chaos that has followed, which lots of us predicted has rendered those marginal and relatively needless gains irrelevant.

I had a plan, that was workable and would have avoided this. Cancelling the oldest and most prestigious cup competition in the world woud be a horrendous moment for football, and just validate the pointlessness of what we did. We couldn't formalise the end of 1 competition that had effectively ended, but we will stop another one in it's entirity. Utterly stupid and bereft of any sporting integrity.


I have no real ideas of solutions. I can only add, I had a workable solutions and they went in their own direction, into a mess I told them would happen. They can fix it. Me personally I think European games should probably be knocked on the head for the season and play more domestic games in those slots, which we are going to need. Thats about all my wisdom can offer them at this point. The stupidity of the PL in not seeing fairly large obstacles on the horizon and it's willingness to drive into them is really only matched by this shambles of a government.

You have no idea what your plan (null and void and start this season a few weeks earlier than initially scheduled I think) would have caused....

1) “product” would still be awful behind closed doors
2) who knows if court cases would have delayed
3) no idea if injuries would have been worse than now after extended break
4) no clue about the financial impact of null and void & tv deals not being honoured ~ how many clubs would have gone belly up.
5) would we have any European spots? UEFA had said no we wouldn’t if league wasn’t brought to conclusion

It’s easy to say now, completion was a disaster, but unless you can answer all the above, it’s speculation either way.

I’m with you the FA cup should be kept - but at this stage anything could happen, especially as you correctly said, with this shambles of a government

 

[catcherintherye]

You have no idea what your plan (null and void and start this season a few weeks earlier than initially scheduled I think) would have caused....

1) “product” would still be awful behind closed doors
2) who knows if court cases would have delayed
3) no idea if injuries would have been worse than now after extended break
4) no clue about the financial impact of null and void & tv deals not being honoured ~ how many clubs would have gone belly up.
5) would we have any European spots? UEFA had said no we wouldn’t if league wasn’t brought to conclusion

It’s easy to say now, completion was a disaster, but unless you can answer all the above, it’s speculation either way.

I’m with you the FA cup should be kept - but at this stage anything could happen, especially as you correctly said, with this shambles of a government

I'm sorry, but thats a ridiculous and snarky response. I have predicted what would occur, and been completely validated by this current shambles. Having called it, I am entitled to highlight the stupidity of what they did.

What I can guarantee, was had we have started the previous season earliy, we would have been at 30+ games completed now and could have had a mid season break to help recover/get cases down again. There would have been no court action, as I stated. There was less legal basis for court action to null and void, than there was for having a summer circus. No leagues who voided have had any corut action. It was a dog whistle propogated to support the shambles we now find ourselves in.

As for no European spots, I take France, Holland, Scotland etc have no European spots either, having ended their leagues? Or are you propagating misinformation to try and detract from the realities of this shambles?

If you want to have a serious discussion, fine. But don't start reproducing innaccurate information, or essentially lies to detract from the debate please.

This is a mess created by the PL. I warned of this mess. It's not my mess. My solution woud have avoied this. So lets here what their solution. The goalposts are simple for me. I had a solution which would have meant;

1) No onward moving of season dates
2) No cancelling of any games in this season
3) No cancelling of cup competitions
4) A winter break for the inevitable winter spike of cases (widely called for by scientists, you know those "experts")
5) No need to move summer tournaments
6) No need to null & void- or impact a fresh season.

They are the minimums for me. Rather than re-hashing nonsense that is easily thrown out as just outwardly wrong, why don't we focus on the above points. Find me a solution that guarentees the above. I'm a bloke on the internet, they are the PL. You are directing your ire in completely the wrong direction and ought to be aiming it at the games governance who can't seem to find a solution on a par with some random bloke who threw together an idea. That should be the concerning point here.

 

[number4.]

I'm sorry, but thats a ridiculous and snarky response. I have predicted what would occur, and been completely validated by this current shambles. Having called it, I am entitled to highlight the stupidity of what they did.

What I can guarantee, was had we have started the previous season earliy, we would have been at 30+ games completed now and could have had a mid season break to help recover/get cases down again. There would have been no court action, as I stated. There was less legal basis for court action to null and void, than there was for having a summer circus. No leagues who voided have had any corut action. It was a dog whistle propogated to support the shambles we now find ourselves in.

As for no European spots, I take France, Holland, Scotland etc have no European spots either, having ended their leagues? Or are you propagating misinformation to try and detract from the realities of this shambles?

If you want to have a serious discussion, fine. But don't start reproducing innaccurate information, or essentially lies to detract from the debate please.

This is a mess created by the PL. I warned of this mess. It's not my mess. My solution woud have avoied this. So lets here what their solution. The goalposts are simple for me. I had a solution which would have meant;

1) No onward moving of season dates
2) No cancelling of any games in this season
3) No cancelling of cup competitions
4) A winter break for the inevitable winter spike of cases (widely called for by scientists, you know those "experts")
5) No need to move summer tournaments
6) No need to null & void- or impact a fresh season.

They are the minimums for me. Rather than re-hashing nonsense that is easily thrown out as just outwardly wrong, why don't we focus on the above points. Find me a solution that guarentees the above. I'm a bloke on the internet, they are the PL. You are directing your ire in completely the wrong direction and ought to be aiming it at the games governance who can't seem to find a solution on a par with some random bloke who threw together an idea. That should be the concerning point here.

It wasnt meant to be a snarky reponse, simply posing some questions about the unknowns of Null and Void & what that may or may not have lead too.

To address the above....

You cannot guarantee there would be 30 plus games played now. Yes, i'd agree there was no precedent for legal action here, but it's an unprecedented global pandemic, one of the reasons our courts exist is to govern unprecedented situations based on facts available, you cannot just sweep aside this as a consideration due to "no legal basis" and leave it at that

With the legal discussions unclear, the rest of your post is "null and void" as we have no idea what would have transpired.

 

[catcherintherye]

It wasnt meant to be a snarky reponse, simply posing some questions about the unknowns of Null and Void & what that may or may not have lead too.

To address the above....

You cannot guarantee there would be 30 plus games played now. Yes, i'd agree there was no precedent for legal action here, but it's an unprecedented global pandemic, one of the reasons our courts exist is to govern unprecedented situations based on facts available, you cannot just sweep aside this as a consideration due to "no legal basis" and leave it at that

With the legal discussions unclear, the rest of your post is "null and void" as we have no idea what would have transpired.

There is no basis for it, as every league that went for null and void had no legal action and no difficulties relating to legalism in restarting.

It literally had no impacton any league where cancellation was taken. A complete red flag. Again without trying to be wise after the event, I did point this out at the time as well.