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2021/22 Rafael Benitez

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Ok. If a manager loses to that extent with that amount of losses then yes , that is relegation form if it continues. If you have 9 losses out of 10 then alarm bells should be ringing.

Just taking into account our situation, how do you then fix i
t? The easy answer would be signings , but then it raises the question would benitez do better with signings , and turn our form around drastically?

But a fix is needed now, whether or not we sack a manager or not. What's the fix that takes us from losing every game to competing and getting points? Would we be losing games with doucoure and lewen in the team? Or had richarlison available these past several weeks? Would we have lost with digne at left back rather than Godfrey? Would we be this worse off if our record signing wasn't in police custody?

It was just a question much like this is, honestly I can't answer it so I'm not expecting anyone else to be able to!

If you get into that situation the answer is to go defensive and grind out results with dull football like Ancelotti did. Results matter, performances don't. Ideology tactics that don't suit your squad (i.e. zonal marking) are not what we need.

This is a midtable squad. Any manager who gets them anywhere near the bottom is doing a horrific job.

A midtable squad should come midtable, but 1 win in 11 or 12 would not be midtable form. So if we get to that point, surely no one can honestly suggest he deserves to stay in his position. That's where we are heading and the board should already have acted to stop it from happenning, but instead we will wait for the inevitable to happen.
 
It was all going very well and I had agreed with literally everything said, until at the very end Jim White asked should Calvert - Lewin have been at Goodison among his teammates. An interesting suggestion considering the game was in Wolverhampton.
Yeah agree on that point but that’s just Jim White trying to manufacture a transfer story or something.
You see I just took that as a mistake, he clearly meant should he not have been in Wolverhampton with his team mates.

Not deliberate or in any way trying to make a drama.
 
If you get into that situation the answer is to go defensive and grind out results with dull football like Ancelotti did. Results matter, performances don't. Ideology tactics that don't suit your squad (i.e. zonal marking) are not what we need.

This is a midtable squad. Any manager who gets them anywhere near the bottom is doing a horrific job.

A midtable squad should come midtable, but 1 win in 11 or 12 would not be midtable form. So if we get to that point, surely no one can honestly suggest he deserves to stay in his position. That's where we are heading and the board should already have acted to stop it from happenning, but instead we will wait for the inevitable to happen.
Perhaps that is what the club expected also? We have finished mid table with a lot more money spent so at a time when we have none, so to speak, a mid table finish would be good? If that is what is expected then benitez is right on track and hitting the same level that ancelotti did, that silva did, that allardyce did and so on.

The team i lised in my last post, not sure if you are replying to it, where would you place that team in the league? Better than the likes of norwich sure but across the board, without doucoure/allan/lewen/richarlison/digne/coleman , where does that second string team finish after 38 games? We have had the lot of them injured so far (allan as well?) so its the second team that has taken over. In all reality, is townsend and gray good signings to be higher than 10th? they had a great start but over the season will they still be scoring / assisting or will they drop into the form that led them to be at palace or sold for buttons?

I knew it coming into this season but reality is, our squad is poor, it is bottom 6 level, simply for the fact that we have no other better players to come in. Look at them lot as a good example. You know their first 11, is keita better than tom davies and delph? Is jota better than iwobi? Is origi better than rondon? We could discuss them lot (don't really want to like) but the point i am making is that despite their lack of investment they have players to plug holes. That is what we are doing now, plugging holes, are the plugs good enough to replace the first ones?

Players have to take account as well. If you think benitez tactics fail then fine, that is always an option and has been on sight. But then it wasn't benitez tactics that made the team capulate against villa and watford so quickly. it isn't his tactics that see keane fall over, godfrey to cost us a goal, davies to not throw a tackle in, that is the players. It is a whole medley of different issues all at once.

So if you remove one problem if you feel that way, the other problems remain. Keane is still a liability, godfrey still isn't a fullback or in form, davies still isn't a premier league player etc. The club will still be poorly ran and our transfer history is still picking up 80 grand a week despite not being good enough.
 

And the reason that the board are being criticised is that they knew this would likely be the case. If only for that reason, the appointment was ridiculous.
you've got to go for the best manager for the job. It would be painfully smalltime to have appointed Nuno cos Bill advised some turnipheads won't take to him come what may.
 
So then how can you justify sacking a manager who has had to deal with both these injuries and not given any investment into the team, a team that has had to literally go into damage limitation because of past mistakes?

That is why it is only a question i am asking. If benitez loses the next 5-6 games (given who some of them are) without his striker, half of his midfield, with only half a defence to begin with given the lack of back up, how can the club justify that? the fans can, its benitez, that will never go away without a trophy. Benitez was meant to be the solution on his hiring.

there isn't an easy answer to where we are now and certainly if we beat watford and wolves, none of this conversation would be in crisis mode, as some people are in currently. Benitez would have us joint 3rd and would be over achieving with the players he has.

So the other question i have, its not who else could do a better job, its what other manager could win with a team including centre halves at full back ,tom davies/ gbamin/delph as 3 of your midfield options and rondon as your striker, with bargain basement wingers plugging a gap? We are one or two injuries away from this team

Pickford
Holgate, Keane, Mina, Godfrey
Davies Gbamin/Delph
Townsend Gray Iwobi
Rondon

Or is that a team that would be in a relegation battle, given the names who are off that team, players that had us winning.
yes, Pep would be bumping along the bottom with the team we had to choose from at Wolves. We just need to show a little patience and get behind the team. The next few games could also yield precious few points, but once we get our injured back we will be fine.
 
Historically we are a streaky team. Win a few then lose a few. That's exacerbated when we have injuries. Out of the games we've played so far the only surprises were getting a point at Old Trafford and losing to Watford. We are about where we should be, but that means we're likely to lose the next 3 matches.
 

What if we lose our next 4 and pick up another few injuries as he goes?

Or better question;

Why would getting beat against teams such as RS , City and spurs that we generally lose most seasons a reason to sack the current manager?

Its not like the next 4 games are the bottom 3!
Because we will be on a horrific amount of points after 15-20 matches played.

Because he will likely be on a run of 1 win in 10. That would not be good enough to keep him employed.
 
People keep saying we can’t sack Benitez after only X amount of games, he only spent £1.7m etc, the problem is that we’re not talking about any manager here, we’re talking about Benitez, a manager who brings the baggage of being an ex RS manager, a manager who was hated by a lot of our supporters (I would even say the majority) even before he was linked with us, a manager who will never be accepted no matter what he does. I actually don’t think Moshiri realised how diversive Benitez’s appointment was going to be.
 
People keep saying we can’t sack Benitez after only X amount of games, he only spent £1.7m etc, the problem is that we’re not talking about any manager here, we’re talking about Benitez, a manager who brings the baggage of being an ex RS manager, a manager who was hated by a lot of our supporters (I would even say the majority) even before he was linked with us, a manager who will never be accepted no matter what he does. I actually don’t think Moshiri realised how diversive Benitez’s appointment was going to be.

The thing is mate you and others are looking at this from the eyes of a supporter.

Usmanov and Moshiri dont give a toss if you are booing the bloke all game providing we are a Premier League side whilst BMD is built/financing is agreed with lenders etc.

Thats ultimately what people are trying to get across - just because fans will boo the bloke more than Lampard for losing 4 out of 5 games means little to them in the grand scheme of things - they wont be at Goodison to witness it.

"Goodison will be toxic"

Goodison was toxic under Alladyce yet the board never sacked him and waited until the seasons end when they had Silva lined up which was always Moshiri's long term target.

Unless the fans are going to physically assault the bloke in the dug out nothings going to see him gone unless our PL survival is in jeopardy which it realistically wont be.

Norwich/Saints/Newcastle/Watford/Burnley/Leeds 6 clubs that instantly will be below us in the table even if we lose the next 2-3 and Villa look as poor as us without the excuse of 3-4 of their best players out injured.

Once injuries are back we'll pick up - win the odd game against a top side whilst beating the likes of Palace, Brentford etc to keep us around 9th-12th.

The hysteria online atm is just OTT.
 

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