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2021/22 Rafael Benitez

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@catcherintherye

Bringing it into the correct thread.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on Rondon. I see a slower target man striker who took a while to get fit but is improving. I’m sure no one at Everton thought we’d be without DCL and Richarlison for such a long period, and no one knew if we’d see Tosun back fit or not. Simms was also injured at the beginning of the season. Given the budget constraints we had, I can see why Benitez brought in a player he knew with prem experience on a free. You don’t see it this way though and that’s fine.

As for the long term rebuild. I see Everton’s problems since 2014 as: recruitment, injury prevention and treatment, player mentality, player profile, and recently managerial instability.

Obviously by wanting to keep the incumbent in place it removes the last issue. I wanted to keep Ancelotti as well. For me the churn between Koeman Silva Allardyce Ancelotti Benitez hasn’t done us any favours.

Player recruitment has been muddled under Moshiri with him, DOFs, and managers buying players. That didn’t work. Benitez has ousted Brands and taken control of this. The summer signings are undoubtedly his and in Gray we’ve made one of our best signings in ages.

Player fitness and recovery. Ultimately too early to judge. He’s at least dismantled a medical team that was clearly not fit for purpose. There’s also some green shoots with Gbamin Delph Tosun the permanent sick notes actually staying fit, Allan staying fit after struggling to last season and also with Doucoure recovering quickly from his injury and coming back strong. The downsides have been Mina carrying on being a liability and of course the DCL injury. Next few months will start to tell us more hopefully, and the aim would be to keep our best players fit for most of next season.

Player mentality. Again far too early but there’s been some encouragement in terms of coming from behind numerous times this season when we’d struggled to do that at all under Silva. There’s also been an increase in work rate in terms of running distances. There’s still been far too many poor performances so it’s a wait and see as to whether Benitez can turn the dial on this or not. If Digne isn’t on board with what he wants to do though then establishing that the manager is in charge at Everton and not these players is a positive step in my view.

Player profile. We’ve bought too many slow weak players recently and it’s left managers hamstring in terms of how they can play. Buying Gray and Townsend, plus wanting to play them in a 4 with DCL and Richarlison shows that he wants to at least play with some pace upfront. That for me is a welcome change in direction away from Davies Bernard Siggurdson Gomes shuffling around the pitch.

He’s not been here long so it needs a far bigger sample to see if any of these changes will bear fruit. Not giving any of these changes a chance to even see if they’ll work or not seems illogical to me. I think giving any manager only 13 games or so to turn around 7 years of decline doesn’t seem logical to me.
 
I honestly think last seasons after Xmas form under Ancelotti would of continued into this season myself.. it was a runaway train going downhill. I think one of the first things Benitez needed to do was to somehow put the brakes on that.. yes results have been bad but for me given the hand he has been dealt with since arriving it was always going to be a slow burner before he put things right.
This is why the time to judge is at the end of the season and after he has had a summer transfer window to work in., just give him the same time and money as the five previous managers.. surely that’s fair..

Why would it have continued? We finished the previous season even worse, and still rectified it. The squad was decimated with injuries and slipped away. With the right manager a 59 point squad is about right.

Currently the manager is nowhere near that level. There is no place for supposition, or excuses, his job is to improve a side that was within 8 points of the top 4. A competent manager would close that gap.
 
Maybe we can get a DOF who buys him young promising players so he doesn’t have to field a team of ageing journeymen.
If we got 1 of them we could bring Favre in, who makes stars out of promising inexpensive kids - without stepping on the DOF toes. Also gets European football and competes with the bigger teams in the league even though his teams are massively outspent by them Way too sensible for Moshiri to do though...And hes free, we could sack the ballbag tomorrow and have Favre in straight away.
 
The way I see it is probably like a sinking ship.. the previous managers have all put leaks in it and it’s been slowly sinking last five or six years no matter what anti Benitez fans think.. Benitez has got to plug those leaks and stop the ship sinking further.. that’s what I call stabilising and it’s just what he’s trying to do now by sorting out medical.. DOF.. and players who have had there slippers and pipe for last few years..

This ofcorse is going to take time.. it’s no overnight job and it will move that slowly people will probably think it’s not moving at all but behind the scenes it wil be..
People just need to be patient and Judge him after a few transfer windows and when he has the behind the scenes stuff organised and productive..
Is this from your intensive 6 month study of all things Everton yea?
 

I just think Benitez is the right appointment for what the club requires at this precise time in its history... he has a wealth of experience and knows the game inside out... the thing I think is really important is he wants to get involved in every aspect of the club from top to bottom which given the way the club has been run over the years is no bad thing.. couldn’t be any worse in fact..
Everybody knows Benitez is first person in of a morning.. last to leave of a night and leaves no stone unturned in trying to make the Club he’s employed for a success..that’s why he was appointed and is exactly what the club needs right now..
To compare him next to names like Ferguson.. Rooney.. Potter and Nuno who were the only other ones is a complete joke just like the people on here who seem to think top managers are breaking down the door to take the Everton job.. maybe 30 years ago.. definately not now....

But again, being in a long time, doesn't make you the right person.

Give me 4 million pounds a year, and I will be in longer than Benitez. Christ I'll have a bed up there and be in 24/7. It's not about how long you are somewhere, what matters is the bottom line. The results.

I always worry when people start talking about how much they are in, when questioned. It normally hints to me someone who is not good at their job, and is trying to blag people. It's a given people will work hard. Can you get good results is the question he has to answer. What time he has his morning coffee has no relevance.

I'm also not sure by what you mean "at this time". We were a club that finished 31 points above the relegation zone. We were very safe, very comfortable, not in any imminent danger or crisis. He has plunged us into potential crisis. That's his doing, and his doing singularly. Getting us out of a crisis he has created is also not doing a good job. It's rectifying a big mess up, and again would not, and should not be looked upon favourably.
 
@catcherintherye

Bringing it into the correct thread.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on Rondon. I see a slower target man striker who took a while to get fit but is improving. I’m sure no one at Everton thought we’d be without DCL and Richarlison for such a long period, and no one knew if we’d see Tosun back fit or not. Simms was also injured at the beginning of the season. Given the budget constraints we had, I can see why Benitez brought in a player he knew with prem experience on a free. You don’t see it this way though and that’s fine.

As for the long term rebuild. I see Everton’s problems since 2014 as: recruitment, injury prevention and treatment, player mentality, player profile, and recently managerial instability.

Obviously by wanting to keep the incumbent in place it removes the last issue. I wanted to keep Ancelotti as well. For me the churn between Koeman Silva Allardyce Ancelotti Benitez hasn’t done us any favours.

Player recruitment has been muddled under Moshiri with him, DOFs, and managers buying players. That didn’t work. Benitez has ousted Brands and taken control of this. The summer signings are undoubtedly his and in Gray we’ve made one of our best signings in ages.

Player fitness and recovery. Ultimately too early to judge. He’s at least dismantled a medical team that was clearly not fit for purpose. There’s also some green shoots with Gbamin Delph Tosun the permanent sick notes actually staying fit, Allan staying fit after struggling to last season and also with Doucoure recovering quickly from his injury and coming back strong. The downsides have been Mina carrying on being a liability and of course the DCL injury. Next few months will start to tell us more hopefully, and the aim would be to keep our best players fit for most of next season.

Player mentality. Again far too early but there’s been some encouragement in terms of coming from behind numerous times this season when we’d struggled to do that at all under Silva. There’s also been an increase in work rate in terms of running distances. There’s still been far too many poor performances so it’s a wait and see as to whether Benitez can turn the dial on this or not. If Digne isn’t on board with what he wants to do though then establishing that the manager is in charge at Everton and not these players is a positive step in my view.

Player profile. We’ve bought too many slow weak players recently and it’s left managers hamstring in terms of how they can play. Buying Gray and Townsend, plus wanting to play them in a 4 with DCL and Richarlison shows that he wants to at least play with some pace upfront. That for me is a welcome change in direction away from Davies Bernard Siggurdson Gomes shuffling around the pitch.

He’s not been here long so it needs a far bigger sample to see if any of these changes will bear fruit. Not giving any of these changes a chance to even see if they’ll work or not seems illogical to me. I think giving any manager only 13 games or so to turn around 7 years of decline doesn’t seem logical to me.
Tbh although I can see you cloak your posts with a veneer of rationality, your views on Benitez are effectively those of @Theoneandonly with a larger vocabulary.

Not impressive really.
 
The tenures are different, I think Wilder took Sheffield United up 2 divisions and got them they're highest finish ever and then essentially took the down.

Benitez took a side down that should never have got relegated. Got them promoted and finished around mid table. Steve Bruce then matched those finishes.

Dyche has done similar Benitez, but with less money. I happen to think Dyche would be a good option for us and has worked wonders at Burnley.

All are different of course, but the managerial performance is similar. I suspect Moshiri likes the experience and clout Benitez has (if you're being kind, or B/s if you're not feeling kind). But a lot of Benitez supporters want to put him in the bracket of your top managers. He's just not for me. He's in the league of the managers above. In honesty, he's a poor mans David Moyes, who also finished above him with far inferior budgets.
None of them have won anything of note.

Benitez has won major European trophies with four different clubs in three different European leagues. He has also won major domestic trophies with five different teams in three different European leagues. That doesn’t happen by accident.

Their records are in no way comparable.
 

I just think Benitez is the right appointment for what the club requires at this precise time in its history... he has a wealth of experience and knows the game inside out... the thing I think is really important is he wants to get involved in every aspect of the club from top to bottom which given the way the club has been run over the years is no bad thing.. couldn’t be any worse in fact..
Everybody knows Benitez is first person in of a morning.. last to leave of a night and leaves no stone unturned in trying to make the Club he’s employed for a success..that’s why he was appointed and is exactly what the club needs right now..
To compare him next to names like Ferguson.. Rooney.. Potter and Nuno who were the only other ones is a complete joke just like the people on here who seem to think top managers are breaking down the door to take the Everton job.. maybe 30 years ago.. definately not now....
That's a lot of words to not answer my question. Are you saying there is no other manager in world football who could do as good or better a job at Everton right now?

Simple question.
 
@catcherintherye

Bringing it into the correct thread.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on Rondon. I see a slower target man striker who took a while to get fit but is improving. I’m sure no one at Everton thought we’d be without DCL and Richarlison for such a long period, and no one knew if we’d see Tosun back fit or not. Simms was also injured at the beginning of the season. Given the budget constraints we had, I can see why Benitez brought in a player he knew with prem experience on a free. You don’t see it this way though and that’s fine.

As for the long term rebuild. I see Everton’s problems since 2014 as: recruitment, injury prevention and treatment, player mentality, player profile, and recently managerial instability.

Obviously by wanting to keep the incumbent in place it removes the last issue. I wanted to keep Ancelotti as well. For me the churn between Koeman Silva Allardyce Ancelotti Benitez hasn’t done us any favours.

Player recruitment has been muddled under Moshiri with him, DOFs, and managers buying players. That didn’t work. Benitez has ousted Brands and taken control of this. The summer signings are undoubtedly his and in Gray we’ve made one of our best signings in ages.

Player fitness and recovery. Ultimately too early to judge. He’s at least dismantled a medical team that was clearly not fit for purpose. There’s also some green shoots with Gbamin Delph Tosun the permanent sick notes actually staying fit, Allan staying fit after struggling to last season and also with Doucoure recovering quickly from his injury and coming back strong. The downsides have been Mina carrying on being a liability and of course the DCL injury. Next few months will start to tell us more hopefully, and the aim would be to keep our best players fit for most of next season.

Player mentality. Again far too early but there’s been some encouragement in terms of coming from behind numerous times this season when we’d struggled to do that at all under Silva. There’s also been an increase in work rate in terms of running distances. There’s still been far too many poor performances so it’s a wait and see as to whether Benitez can turn the dial on this or not. If Digne isn’t on board with what he wants to do though then establishing that the manager is in charge at Everton and not these players is a positive step in my view.

Player profile. We’ve bought too many slow weak players recently and it’s left managers hamstring in terms of how they can play. Buying Gray and Townsend, plus wanting to play them in a 4 with DCL and Richarlison shows that he wants to at least play with some pace upfront. That for me is a welcome change in direction away from Davies Bernard Siggurdson Gomes shuffling around the pitch.

He’s not been here long so it needs a far bigger sample to see if any of these changes will bear fruit. Not giving any of these changes a chance to even see if they’ll work or not seems illogical to me. I think giving any manager only 13 games or so to turn around 7 years of decline doesn’t seem logical to me.

Yes that makes sense.

Just to add a bit on, my two pennies worth on Simms and Dobbin. These are not wholly inconsistent with what I've said about both in the youth teams thread. I don't think Simms was good enough. He surprised me how well he did at Chelsea, his hold up play was good and he won some headers. Against the defence he was, he occupied them and showed more mobility than Rondon. He was bright. The derby aside, he was far better than any performance from Rondon, and arguably better than him in the derby. I thought he did very well up against Rudiger and Silva (who are better than Liverpool's CB in my opinion). He was a big plus and to me should have played earlier.

Dobbin I thought was excellent, he looks alive and quick in the way Jeffers did when he 1st broke through. He should have had more minutes, especially when chasing games. He's not like for like for Rondon, so it's hard to evaluate him, but honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of Dobbin.

The concern is, if you don't play Dobbin, he will leave. As a club we can't afford this to keep happening, after Small left following the Benitez appointment. Our problem post 2014, and in truth before that has been as a club we have little idea how we can realistically over achieve given the constraints we face. There's no discussion on it at a strategic level. We need to have a far more youth focused approach, and allow football experts to run the club.Monaco, Sevilla, Dortmund, Leipzig, Lille etc who have all over achieved have a strong DOF model that tilts towards youth development and opportunity. At some point you have to mandate coaches to be a part of this. Until Chelsea, we haven't seen enough of that (and in fairness Ancelotti didn't either).

Chelsea gave Benitez a window of opportunity. Brainthwaite and Dobbin have given him real headaches over some of the players we have seen. Simms too in relation to Rondon. We cannot keep picking senior players on the basis of what they are paid, or that they may be able to take criticism better, that is no strategy at all.

As for Benitez, I would have sacked him after the Liverpool abomination, to me he was a disgrace that night. However he is here. Personally I'd like to see a proper structure put in off the field. DBB/Kenwright chased with better people employed (I'd make an approach for Edwards from that lot) and I'm sure once those people are in situ then then will deal with Benitez.

As for the summer business, I don't think we can say he did it all. We know Brands scouted Gray regularly, and signed him. Benitez seems to have signed the other 4, 3 of which have been complete duds, and 1 in Townsend who started ok but honestly is looking poor recently. It could easily be 4 signed, 4 duds for Benitez I'm afraid.
 

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