2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Marius57]

Allardyce spent £40m on Walcott and Tosun. Benitez spent £1.7m on Gray and Townsend. Let’s judge at the end of the season.

Tosun is a moshiri signing. I hate allardyce but I won't lump that signing on him as well. Allardyce signed Walcott who actually did OK for us even if he was overpriced. Allardyce also got us able to defend within weeks even with martina at LB. Whereas 6 months in now, and we still can't.

 

[Bluestar]

You're right, but it's undeniable Benitez dies far better at clubs with an awful lot already in place. There's little that indicates, to me, he's the man to take forward a mid table club in need of restructuring.

If he was a plastic surgeon he'd be good for a little nip and tuck, but I'd look elsewhere for a radical post-accident reconstruction.

That is a more reasoned argument against him than all of the other nonsense I have read.

All I can say is that I will judge him at the end of the season taking account of all the issues he inherited with the squad.

That said, I anticipate he will be given another season.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

That's too harsh.

Let's see how things go against Brighton, senator McCarthy, before we accuse @ForeverBlue92 of anything we can legitimately accuse @Legend78 of.

Eh? What you on about now?

 

[cahill 17]

Hold on mate, some of this is complete nonsense.

The crisis I refer to, is being in the bottom 6 in the league, getting little over a point a game. The previous manager, had us within 8 points of the CL, 31 points clear of the relegation zone (about as far away from it as we have been in my lifetime). So relatively speaking, the teams performance of which he is accountable has put us into crisis. Injuries are no excuse either, we had far worse injuries last season, and got to 59 points. Thats the baseline for his performance, which has really plummeted.

I am not sure what "incompetence" you refer to, perhaps you could give some details? Our injury record has been poor under him, no? Or do other people get the blame even when he is in charge?

As for Digne, I have no idea if he's spat his dummy out and won't get drawn on idle speculation. The reality is though, it's the mangers job to ensure players don't spit their dummies out, so if he has, that is on Benitez too. I have given him the benefit of the doubt on that, as I'm not sure that has happened.

Much of the rest of your post is just needlessly insulting. Why don't I as a fan deserve a manager who is grossly underperforming? Why does the manager deserve the support of someone like me, who pays his huge wages? Who on earth do you think you are, to go making any moral judgements on who I do or don't deserve as a manager? Politely, have you clocked 15,000-20,000 a year following the club home and away year after year? I hate bringing that stuff up, and I know not everyone can do that stuff, but I wouldn't sit there making judgements on what someone does or doesn't deserve, from a position of having likely not really attended many games.

He will likely score the lowest points total in his 1st season as manager for any manager this century. I expect my club to aim to be the best. If he is the worst this century, I have given enough time, money and effort to be able to put a critical opinion, no? So please, don't start with telling me what I do or don't deserve. I wouldn't do it to you.

Can you elaborate what makes Tottenham or Arsenal "better" clubs than Everton? Why is a draw against Tottenham "doing better" or meaning he is above any criticism. You know we defeated Tottenham home and away last season don't you? Why is a draw against Tottenham, who've won nothing of note in my lifetime a good result?

Moyes is a far better manager than Benitez. He operated for 11 years on the budget Benitez has, and his supporters never insulted the fanbase as you have today. We never lost a derby at home by the margin he did. We never acted like a draw against Tottenham at home was some miracle result. We finished in the top 8 almost every season. He inherited a woeful squad (as someone who was going every week back then I am aware of such small details) about to be relegated, not one that finished 31 points above the relegation zone.

As a final aside, I'd love to hear what you think above makes me a sky sports fan. I attend matches regularly, and I suspect you watch Sky Sports, not me. And that is meant as respectfully as it can be.

??

 

[4737carlin]

Allardyce inherited a team in the bottom 3 with no pre-season and got them to 8th. Benitez had all summer and inherited a side that was 31 points clear of the bottom 3.

He inherited a side that came bottom half of the table 2 seasons on the run and for the last few months had little coaching from a manager who wasnt interested.
For what its worth Sam should never of been sacked, Moshiri wont make the mistake of sacking a manager again for no reason.

 

[Bluestar]

Yes Allardyce has spent more.

Allardyce inherited a team in the bottom 3 with no pre-season and got them to 8th. Benitez had all summer and inherited a side that was 31 points clear of the bottom 3.

Whatever you think of each manager, thus far Allardyce has far outperformed Benitez, even if you factor in that he had 40m more to spend than him.

Benitez has suffered an insane injury crisis, and lost the services of a 45m player through no fault of his own.

After the summer spend, I expected a struggle this season.

Again, I’ll judge his performance at the end of the season and take squad issues into account.

 

[Marius57]

He inherited a side that came bottom half of the table 2 seasons on the run and for the last few months had little coaching from a manager who wasnt interested.
For what its worth Sam should never of been sacked, Moshiri wont make the mistake of sacking a manager again for no reason.

Neither should ever have been hired, then neither would have needed to be sacked.

 

[4737carlin]

Neither should ever have been hired, then neither would have needed to be sacked.

Maybe if Moshiri wasnt such a nuisance and left everything to Bill we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[catcherintherye]

The last paragraph seems too convenient for me. So Benitez was wholly responsible for the duds but not for the hit? I don’t buy that especially with Benitez claiming he’d followed Gray even prior to becoming manager here. Even with the other signings has Townsend become a dud now? Are his stats poor? He had a few ineffective games then got injured, but does that make a bad signing especially considering he was free? Gray has been brilliant. Lonergan and Begovic were emergency signings to replace Olsen and Virginia. Again both free. I would have loved to have kept Olsen but we probably couldn’t afford him.

As for Dobbin. It’s not as though we didn’t play him before the Chelsea game. We have done. He’s also had his own injuries as well. Considering he’s not a known phenomenon (e.g Rooney, Barkley) I’d say his game time hasn’t been unreasonable for a player of his profile. The big plus of course has been Gordon who has been favoured ahead of Iwobi.

I agree with you on a strategy for utilising the youth players. They’ve got to be good ones though. The likes of Davies Holgate Kenny we put a lot of trust in but quite frankly they just haven’t been good enough. DCL has undoubtedly and so was Stones and Barkley before. We had a so called golden generation of Davies Dowell Connely Kenny Ledson coming through immediately after Barkley. They got changes but were just nowhere near good enough. The ones that did annoy me were Lookman and Vlasic who I felt we should have played a lot more. Perhaps we need a restructuring of the academy but in fairness Gordon Dobbin Onyango look a bit of a better bet at this stage (mind you so did Davies at 17)

I agree with you that some buys have blocked pathways to the first team such as Iwobi, Delph etc. I’d like to have seen more of Onyango Gordon etc. but to do this you have to have managerial stability, fit players, a settled team, and ideally a decent team.

When you have managers trying to rescue the team from relegation troubles midway through seasons, and they have injury problems, and the team is playing poorly, they are highly highly unlikely to throw in young players that may or may not be of the quality required.

I actually don’t think we’ve done THAT badly in terms of trying to play youth players. I don’t see the top teams throwing teenagers in and keeping them in the first team (Foden perhaps the only example who even then got two seasons under Silva before he was a regular). I don’t see many teams in the PL starting multiple academy teenagers in games. The norm seems to be that the best one or two are on the bench. That for us would be Gordon who is now playing almost every week.

Like I said I think we actually out an awful lot of faith in DCL Holgate Davies as a young spine for the team, playing all of them probably far more as very young players than other clubs would. Davies was getting selected by managers over far more expensive experienced midfield options despite really not being good enough recently. No one can say we haven’t persisted with some of these players.

The problem with some fans though, and particularly Everton fans who have needed to put their faith in a superstars academy player rescuing the first team, is that we always want more. Under Moyes it wasn’t enough for him to blood Osman and Hibbert, and then Rooney, and then Rodwell Baughan Anichebe, and then Barkley, it was always about whatever 16 year old was in the academy that he wasn’t playing. He even threw them in from time to time and most just completely flopped but they all got a chance. The verdict from most fans was that he didn’t trust youth though even though some of his teams were littered with them.

We’re having a similar thing now but on a smaller scale. Everton have been playing the youth as I said, the ‘golden generation’ plus DCL and Holgate all got a lot of first team games. Then Gordon has done almost immediately. Onyango and Dobbin have been getting into the pitch this season. It’s not enough though is it. The fans want them starting, and what about 16 year old Small (has he even played for Southampton btw yet?) why isn’t he first choice yet. By the end of this season we might see a first team squad that has Simms Dobbin Gordon Branthwaite Onyango all integrated into it but no one will care and it will be straight into moaning about the next 16 year old who has bagged a few goals for the youth team. I get it but most of these teenage kids in the future won’t be good enough and shouldn’t be starting premier league games. They don’t at other clubs. We have to bring them through sensibly if they are good enough.

Yes good post.

On the opening paragraph, all I can say, is I said the same in the summer. I seem to remember saying it to @Zatara in a thread that Gray would be ok, Brands had been watching him and liked his running stats. I honestly don't put a lot of truck in Benitez allegedly texting someone when he was in China. That just sounds very difficult to believe to me, especially when it's contrasted with Everton regularly sending scouts to Leverkusens game, and Brands saying he wanted a wide player who could carry the ball.

As for Gordon, no disagreements there. That is a big plus for Benitez really. I thought his comments after Watford were a bit ridiculous (as he is prone to be in post match interviews) but he has managed Gordon very well and you can see improvement.

As for the wider discussion on youth I agree with a lot of your sentiment. I think there has to be more realism, and we bring through more than we think. Unlike Chelsea, City and Liverpool we are not spending millions (if not tens of millions) out each year on salaries, fees and agents fees for young players (and this goes on every season from those teams). You wonder why LFC's wages budget is 350m, a lot of it is eaten up by lads in the 23's and below.

One criticism I would have is our development post 18 hasn't been good enough for some time. You look at lads like Barkley, Rodwell to a degree Davies etc they have all flatlined at about 18/19. Thats not good enough. Players at LFC just keep improving, Gerrard, Carragher and now Arnold just keep improving. That is one thing we need to do better and suss out. I suspect the managerial turmoil hasn't helped.

DCL is the exception, and honestly has gone beyond where anyone may have thought. That won't happen every time, but to me Holgate, Davies,Kenny should all have got to Godfrey level based on where they were at 19.

I hope we see more of Dobbin, he might not be well known, but he is a bright prospect. It's key critical Benitez gets him to sign the deal, and it will be a big black mark against him if he fails in that regard.

 

[blue to the bone]

Honestly, I have no issue with the guy, or any fan who supports the manager, or opposes them. I really enjoy engaging with Davek, Saint Domingo, ForeverBlue etc who are right behind the manager (along with loads of others). I met my old man over Christmas, he's completely behind Benitez. If it wasn't for him, I doubt I'd even be an Evertonian. You're not some super blue for not supporting the manager, or a Kopite if you are. I've shied away from any of that stuff.

However whats not on is to start telling people they don't deserve a manager because you've politely pointed out that we have gone from 59 points in a season to 19 from 17 games. Getting personnel and questioning whether you deserve the club is completely out of line.

If you want to disagree then thats fine, but I'm not having people questioning whether or not I can bean Evertonian, when I'm not convinced he's even been to a match.

This is the problem with this manager too. He attracts complete whoppers. It was exactly the same at Liverpool. Loads of complete numpties and hanger ons jump to his bandwagon.

He's not a supporter of the club. Yet he's here day after day telling us what is right and wrong and what we should be happy with . Has told numerous lies about who he supports.
He should be booted off here . His sole aim is to antagonise people.

 

[catcherintherye]

Benitez has suffered an insane injury crisis, and lost the services of a 45m player through no fault of his own.

After the summer spend, I expected a struggle this season.

Again, I’ll judge his performance at the end of the season and take squad issues into account.

That 45m player has never performed like a 45m player and honestly would have offered very little in the system he wants to play.

Whatever the faults of the squad, the same squad, with worse injury problems got 59 points last season. That is the standard he will be judged to. If he can match that and effectively stand still, I will give him credit for doing a par job.

 

[Marius57]

He still hasn`t told us who he actually supports, even though it`s plain as day.

It's Dalian Pro mate. Can't name a player, but massive super fan. He then has a keen interest in the Indian Super League.

Personally, Kerala Blasters are my team from the ISL.

Not sure why you would suggest he doesn't support them. ?

 

[catcherintherye]

He's not a supporter of the club. Yet he's here day after day telling us what is right and wrong and what we should be happy with . Has told numerous lies about who he supports.
He should be booted off here . His sole aim is to antagonise people.

I don't want people booted off here, and honestly I don't mind he supports another club. But don't go calling into question the right of supporters to support this club.

When he has clocked the miles I did, year in, year out, then we can have a discussion about who deserves what. It really is that simple.

My dad did similar, in fact he did more than me and had a couple of consecutive years where he didn't miss a game. He likes the manager. I'm quite willing to ave him tell me what for, but some fella who doesn't support the club needs to behave a bit better.

 

[blue to the bone]

I don't want people booted off here, and honestly I don't mind he supports another club. But don't go calling into question the right of supporters to support this club.

When he has clocked the miles I did, year in, year out, then we can have a discussion about who deserves what. It really is that simple.

My dad did similar, in fact he did more than me and had a couple of consecutive years where he didn't miss a game. He likes the manager. I'm quite willing to ave him tell me what for, but some fella who doesn't support the club needs to behave a bit better.

Thats what I mean. He's not a supporter. And his sole posting history is to support the manager . He's a wum

 

[larbert toffee]

Aldo lad the mediocrity of the last decade, is precisely the reason why i don't want Benitez. We've gone from being a regular top seven/ top eight club, to a club that some fans are now happy, to see just barely avoiding relegation! I want to see this club win trophies, and try and compete with the best teams in the league. We have no hope of achieving any of this, with Benitez as manager.

Some fans are happy to see the club barely avoiding relegation?
Name them or vault them Corky.
You're boring us all with the same post over and over again, you're on about mediocrity yet you were relentless in your support of Chris Wilder becoming our manager, on what basis was that?