2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Spadge Vernacular]

Can you get me some of the drugs you’re taking ?

Stay clear mate, it will screw with your perception of what is right and wrong. Look at poor @4737carlin New Years outfit!

 

[PhilM]

King Carlo had been given £1.7 million to spend and had DCL out for near 4 months would he be hammered to the extent Benitez has?

You're right, Carlo had more to spend and that's a fair argument. You'd also have to admit that DCL's injury will have impacted on his ability.

However, let's swing it the other way slightly as you could argue that in terms of the squad Benitez should have a better choice of players at his disposal.

Bar James leaving, which was approved by Benitez, he's added Gray, Townsend and Rondon - all his choice. Consider that, I think you can't help judge results.

We're not talking about a poor run - we're talking about the worst run since the early 90s; worse than Kendall MK III, Martinez, Silva, Koeman and Carlo.

We're going all the way back to Mike Walker, and maybe you're a bit too young to remember how dross we were for large swathes of his tenure.

So, if in eighteen months time he's not improved us, beaten the performances of Carlo (who was far from perfect!) and still holds that terrible record...

... what will you say? I was more than willing to give Benitez time and support - go back and check - but in all honesty he doesn't inspire me with confidence.

 

[Kev The Rat]

You could argue if a certain group of fans weren't so against the manager from the start then a group of sensible supporters wouldn't feel the need to come to the fella's defence as much?

I mean if King Carlo had been given £1.7 million to spend and had DCL out for near 4 months would he be hammered to the extent Benitez has?

No chance at all.

If people judge the fella after he's been backed in the window and given 18+ months to build his own side then their would be little argument on here.

Yet Kevin The Rat etc have no patience and wanted him oot from day one yet WE are the ones with an agenda!! lol

Assuming results had been what they have been, he would have been crucified yes.

 

[Marius57]

You could argue if a certain group of fans weren't so against the manager from the start then a group of sensible supporters wouldn't feel the need to come to the fella's defence as much?

I mean if King Carlo had been given £1.7 million to spend and had DCL out for near 4 months would he be hammered to the extent Benitez has?

No chance at all.

If people judge the fella after he's been backed in the window and given 18+ months to build his own side then their would be little argument on here.

Yet Kevin The Rat etc have no patience and wanted him oot from day one yet WE are the ones with an agenda!! lol

What about when Carlo took over when we were 15th, 4 points off relegation, with 19 points from 18 games then got 30 points from 20 games having spent no money in that transfer window (so using the squad he inherited) and having to play midfields of gomes, Davies, iwobi and Gordon.

He managed then. That's why he wasn't hammered.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You're right, Carlo had more to spend and that's a fair argument. You'd also have to admit that DCL's injury will have impacted on his ability.

However, let's swing it the other way slightly as you could argue that in terms of the squad Benitez should have a better choice of players at his disposal.

Bar James leaving, which was approved by Benitez, he's added Gray, Townsend and Rondon - all his choice. Consider that, I think you can't help judge results.

We're not talking about a poor run - we're talking about the worst run since the early 90s; worse than Kendall MK III, Martinez, Silva, Koeman and Carlo.

We're going all the way back to Mike Walker, and maybe you're a bit too young to remember how dross we were for large swathes of his tenure.

So, if in eighteen months time he's not improved us, beaten the performances of Carlo (who was far from perfect!) and still holds that terrible record...

... what will you say? I was more than willing to give Benitez time and support - go back and check - but in all honesty he doesn't inspire me with confidence.

The state of the club and squad as it stands it would be ludicrous to not give any manager at least 18 months to try sort it out.

Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out 18 months ago now he's brilliant.

There was a time WHU fans wanted Moyes out now he's brilliant.

Some Leicester fans wanted Rodgers out this season but now they are climbing up the table he's great again.

Football fans are fickle but after 5 managers in 6 years I would have thought our fans would realise we can't keep going down the road we have been yet he we are not even half the season in wanting Moshiri to claim another head.

We all had reservations about Benitez but he's here so back him until its clear he's not taking us forward - £1.7 million, an injury crisis including our main goalscorer, a player suspended for off the field shenanigans and the antics at boardroom level you cant judge that after 17 games.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

What about when Carlo took over when we were 15th, 4 points off relegation, with 19 points from 18 games then got 30 points from 20 games having spent no money in that transfer window (so using the squad he inherited) and having to play midfields of gomes, Davies, iwobi and Gordon.

He managed then. That's why he wasn't hammered.

Ancelotti finished 10th and 12th - I couldn't give a toss where he had us after "x" amount of games.

Come the end of this season Benitez could have us 9th...

 

[everton1953]

You're right, Carlo had more to spend and that's a fair argument. You'd also have to admit that DCL's injury will have impacted on his ability.

However, let's swing it the other way slightly as you could argue that in terms of the squad Benitez should have a better choice of players at his disposal.

Bar James leaving, which was approved by Benitez, he's added Gray, Townsend and Rondon - all his choice. Consider that, I think you can't help judge results.

We're not talking about a poor run - we're talking about the worst run since the early 90s; worse than Kendall MK III, Martinez, Silva, Koeman and Carlo.

We're going all the way back to Mike Walker, and maybe you're a bit too young to remember how dross we were for large swathes of his tenure.

So, if in eighteen months time he's not improved us, beaten the performances of Carlo (who was far from perfect!) and still holds that terrible record...

... what will you say? I was more than willing to give Benitez time and support - go back and check - but in all honesty he doesn't inspire me with confidence.

Agree with all that, except that the infamous Mike Walker's tenure was too short for your "long swathes" to apply. His appointment was based on "success" at little Norwich. His world fell apart not long after he left us when his wife died. We got shut of him very quickly.

 

[roy vernon]

I don't think most fans are expecting a top eight challenge right away. I do think the real issue is that, from what I've seen, we've regressed under Benitez.

Are we defensively better? Are we offensively better? Which manager has had the worst run in nearly three decades? The squad isn't much different either.

You can think Ancelotti wasn't brilliant and still think Rafael is worse, well far worse.

My biggest worry is that his supposed strength, is in getting his teams well organised at the back. He has come in here, played ultra defensive football and yet...he has somehow managed to turn a well organised tight defence into a shambles, especially when defending set pieces. I don’t know if it is just me, but, I go into full panic mode when we concede a corner or a free kick in our own half of the pitch.

I hope things will improve after the transfer window, when he has brought in some more of the players that he feels suit the system he wants to play, but, as a manager it Behoves him to work with the players he has got and find the best way to get results with them. On that criterion his stewardship has totally failed.

It’s one thing to play football as ugly as we have under Benitez so far, but, if you must, then for god sake get some positive results with it. I still have a little hope that he might turn it around and stabilise things, but, I fear that at this stage of his career and with his outdated football ideas, keeping us in the division whilst not spending too much money until our balance sheet looks healthier, is about the most we can hope for.

It’s not what I feel our club’s aspirations should be, but, I think it’s what our owner/owners want.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

1. We all had reservations about Benitez but he's here so 2. back him until its clear he's not taking us forward - £1.7 million, an injury crisis including our main goalscorer, a player suspended for off the field shenanigans and the antics at boardroom level you cant judge that after 17 games.

1. Not you, you couldn't wait for him to come and have consistently used the opportunity to goad good blues, as you are still doing.

2. Would that be when and if your little fantasy about seeing Everton relegated came true?

 

[PhilM]

The state of the club and squad as it stands it would be ludicrous to not give any manager at least 18 months to try sort it out.

Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out 18 months ago now he's brilliant.

There was a time WHU fans wanted Moyes out now he's brilliant.

Some Leicester fans wanted Rodgers out this season now they are climbing up the table and he's great again.

Football fans are fickle but after 5 managers in 6 years I would have thought our fans would realise we can't keep going down the road we have been yet he we are not even half the season in wanting Moshiri to claim another head.

We all had reservations about Benitez but he's here so back him until its clear he's not taking us forward - £1.7 million, an injury crisis including our main goalscorer, a player suspended for off the field shenanigans and the antics at boardroom level you cant judge that after 17 games.

Honestly, if he'd lost seventeen or those seventeen would you say the same? Now, before you say otherwise I know it's not that situation, which is a fair point.

However, you can't ignore form simply because of what has gone before; you can add mitigation and consider all factors, but it can't be entirely ignored.

The point of the board antics and whatever else can't be ignored too, so let's look at it objectively with everything considered together in an objective way.

Some fans will have never accepted Benitez and we all know that. The problem is that there's lots of fans who did give him a chance, who are concerned.

Are they wrong to do so? For me, no. As @roy vernon mentions, we're defensively worse than last season and this is a perceived strength of his.

Agree with all that, except that the infamous Mike Walker's tenure was too short for your "long swathes" to apply. His appointment was based on "success" at little Norwich. His world fell apart not long after he left us when his wife died. We got shut of him very quickly.

You're right there. My point was that his start here wasn't too bad. It was after the 2-1 defeat to the RS at Analfield where results took a downward turn.

He never really recovered from that and only victories against West Ham and Wimbledon kept us up. Basically, 75% to 80% of his time with us was a failure.

 

[phil_t98]

My biggest worry is that his supposed strength, is in getting his teams well organised at the back. He has come in here, played ultra defensive football and yet...he has somehow managed to turn a well organised tight defence into a shambles, especially when defending set pieces. I don’t know if it is just me, but, I go into full panic mode when we concede a corner or a free kick in our own half of the pitch.

I hope things will improve after the transfer window, when he has brought in some more of the players that he feels suit the system he wants to play, but, as a manager it Behoves him to work with the players he has got and find the best way to get results with them. On that criterion his stewardship has totally failed.

It’s one thing to play football as ugly as we have under Benitez so far, but, if you must, then for god sake get some positive results with it. I still have a little hope that he might turn it around and stabilise things, but, I fear that at this stage of his career and with his outdated football ideas, keeping us in the division whilst not spending too much money until our balance sheet looks healthier, is about the most we can hope for.

It’s not what I feel our club’s aspirations should be, but, I think it’s what our owner/owners want.

how were we will organised last season when we were letting in goals for fun and finished 10th?

 

[Bigduke1234]

Maybe his new year resolution is to play cohesive football so I’m going to reset my opinion of him. Some of the transfer rumours have been refreshing (cue us signing Ramsey and my head falling off).

 

[PhilM]

how were we will organised last season when we were letting in goals for fun and finished 10th?

Last season, we conceded 48 goals out of the thirty-eight league games. We've played less than half the number of games, but we're 60% of that total.

When you consider we had a positive start to last season, it'll be interesting to see if we can reverse that and concede less this season.

@Toast what odds would you take for it?

 

[roy vernon]

how were we will organised last season when we were letting in goals for fun and finished 10th?

Oh I don’t know, how about maybe the fact that in the whole of last season from set pieces we conceded 6 goals from 38 games, so far this season from set pieces we have conceded 6 goals in 17 games. Seems pretty much an open and shut case to me mate.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

What about when Carlo took over when we were 15th, 4 points off relegation, with 19 points from 18 games then got 30 points from 20 games having spent no money in that transfer window (so using the squad he inherited) and having to play midfields of gomes, Davies, iwobi and Gordon.

He managed then. That's why he wasn't hammered.

@Marius57 - is that mathematically possible? I agree with your sentiments entirely though.