ramadan

[TheBlueGibbon]

The EDL were formed because they are sick of the radical Islam in the UK. In principle I absolutely sympathise with them. The way they go about it is another issue and another debate. And Muslims not being listened to? WE BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR THEM. Cant be arsed going on about it as some wont get it until its too late.

But both radical British-born Islamists and the EDL are from deprived working-class backgrounds. So are the gangs of Liverpool and Manchester. Neither the radicalised Muslims, or the gangs feel engaged in British society, both have the same root causes, a lack of well-paid, secure and skilled working-class jobs in their communities. Both groups feel they have nothing to lose, which simply encourages radicalisation, whether that be in the form of gangs or Islamism.

 

[Walken]

Shows how little you know. I'm not pro EDL or against them, but what I would do is research and not just let the media dictate what you think of them. TR actually speaks very well, look at his interview after Woolwich, its the people that follow him and attach themselves to something which should be positive to air their racist views which ruin it for everyone and stop radical islam being addressed. I've met TR a couple of times out and about, not a bad guy by all accounts although definatly no angel, and Ive seen him with my own eyes meeting with an imam over a coffee. The EDL has none white and none Christian followers too. Again, how they go about demonstrating is another issue although I would raise that it's people that try to attack them that kicks it all off rather than the other way around.

I don't see how it could be positive with that title though Nik, your right about religion, but nationalism is just as big a disease and causes just as much hate. I don't see how you can potentially advocate something that is about nationalism, with your views on religion, when the two things are not that far apart

 

[EFCNIK]

I don't see how it could be positive with that title though Nik, your right about religion, but nationalism is just as big a disease and causes just as much hate. I don't see how you can potentially advocate something that is about nationalism, with your views on religion, when the two things are not that far apart

Nothing wrong with being proud of your country. Americans are, Australians are, European countries are pretty much every country has positive nationalism but when we show ours we are being divisive and racist. Piss right off. Anyone can be proud of being English or British.

 

[Blue 1]

Shows how little you know. I'm not pro EDL or against them, but what I would do is research and not just let the media dictate what you think of them. TR actually speaks very well, look at his interview after Woolwich, its the people that follow him and attach themselves to something which should be positive to air their racist views which ruin it for everyone and stop radical islam being addressed. I've met TR a couple of times out and about, not a bad guy by all accounts although definatly no angel, and Ive seen him with my own eyes meeting with an imam over a coffee. The EDL has none white and none Christian followers too. Again, how they go about demonstrating is another issue although I would raise that it's people that try to attack them that kicks it all off rather than the other way around.

Lennon a good orator? That's hysterical. He's a twitchy cokehead who mumbles, does nothing but spout pre-rehearsed lines and gets aggressive when challenged, and is a compulsive liar. I have researched them plenty, ta very much. Probably a lot more than you. I've been quite involved in organising against them in the past. Not UAF, before you shout that, I've got very little time for them either.

 

[EFCNIK]

Lennon a good orator? That's hysterical. He's a twitchy cokehead who mumbles, does nothing but spout pre-rehearsed lines and gets aggressive when challenged, and is a compulsive liar.

But what he SAYS is true. What he believes I don't know. On the brief occasions Ive met him we never went into detail but all I know is one of his best mates is a Sikh so kind of dispels the racist aspect. Again, not defending or attacking. But people seem very quick to judge and attack The EDL but not so quick to attack the people who threaten to rape and kill his children and physically attack him without arrest.

 

[Walken]

Nothing wrong with being proud of your country. Americans are, Australians are, European countries are pretty much every country has positive nationalism but when we show ours we are being divisive and racist. Piss right off. Anyone can be proud of being English or British.

Loving or hating someone based on geography is illogical, loving or hating someone based on what myth they've created because they are scared of death is illogical. Theirs no difference and they both cause huge levels of hatred.

 

[EFCNIK]

Loving or hating someone based on geography is illogical, loving or hating someone based on what myth they've created because they are scared of death is illogical. Theirs no difference and they both cause huge levels of hatred.

Why the hell does being proud of your country have to mean you hate everyone else?! You're just making stuff up mate. And you haven't addressed why its cool for all other countries to be proud of their identities but not us. Again, the liberal left have tarnished a positive thing and attached connotations to it. Like if you say 'right wing' you immediately think 'far right racist' yet if you say 'left wing' you think positively. Left wing liberals are probably just as fascist as the far right.

 

[Blue 1]

But what he SAYS is true. What he believes I don't know. On the brief occasions Ive met him we never went into detail but all I know is one of his best mates is a Sikh so kind of dispels the racist aspect. Again, not defending or attacking. But people seem very quick to judge and attack The EDL but not so quick to attack the people who threaten to rape and kill his children and physically attack him without arrest.

Most of what he says isn't true though. His Sikh mate isn't old Guramit Singh, is it?

 

[bluemangroup]

Why the hell does being proud of your country have to mean you hate everyone else?! You're just making stuff up mate. And you haven't addressed why its cool for all other countries to be proud of their identities but not us. Again, the liberal left have tarnished a positive thing and attached connotations to it. Like if you say 'right wing' you immediately think 'far right racist' yet if you say 'left wing' you think positively. Left wing liberals are probably just as fascist as the far right.

No mate, the far right have brought the negative connotations upon themselves, via what they do. They then claim the shift to the left is grossly unfair and play the victim about it all the time.

 

[steken1]

Loving or hating someone based on geography is illogical, loving or hating someone based on what myth they've created because they are scared of death is illogical. Theirs no difference and they both cause huge levels of hatred.

In that case civic pride is an anomaly as it's a lottery as to where you're born. I take a lot of pride in my city, it's achievements and the people who hail from it.

It's real and it's cohesive and natural.

Nik is right about us being made to feel bad for being proud of our country. More than once I've heard of councils taking down union jacks and english flags so as to not cause 'offense'.

 

[Walken]

Why the hell does being proud of your country have to mean you hate everyone else?! You're just making stuff up mate. And you haven't addressed why its cool for all other countries to be proud of their identities but not us. Again, the liberal left have tarnished a positive thing and attached connotations to it. Like if you say 'right wing' you immediately think 'far right racist' yet if you say 'left wing' you think positively. Left wing liberals are probably just as fascist as the far right.

I don't think all people who are proud of their country hate everyone else, just like I don't believe all religious people hate everyone else, my point is on the EDL who are in my opinion a nationalist organisation of an extreme nature. I don't particulary like nationalism or patriotism, I think it is divisive, I'm afraid I am with Einstein on that one. There are countries I love because of my experiences travelling there and the people, not because I was born there, I was born in Birkenhead, its a hole full of belters. I don't see how someone can be dead set against religious organisations that cause division, and defend another and its leader that does the same

 

[TheBlueGibbon]

Why the hell does being proud of your country have to mean you hate everyone else?! You're just making stuff up mate. And you haven't addressed why its cool for all other countries to be proud of their identities but not us. Again, the liberal left have tarnished a positive thing and attached connotations to it. Like if you say 'right wing' you immediately think 'far right racist' yet if you say 'left wing' you think positively. Left wing liberals are probably just as fascist as the far right.

Patriotism is being proud of your country mate, nationalism is loving your country because you hate others.

 

[Walken]

In that case civic pride is an anomaly as it's a lottery as to where you're born. I take a lot of pride in my city, it's achievements and the people who hail from it.

It's real and it's cohesive and natural.

Nik is right about us being made to feel bad for being proud of our country. More than once I've heard of councils taking down union jacks and english flags so as to not cause 'offense'.

lots of people are proud of their religion, both make little logical sense when you really analyse them, I'm not saying anyone should be ashamed if they show pride in the right way, the same as someone practising religion in the right way. Just that both can be equally divisive and a source of hatred. I don't see how people can say abolish religion it cause hatred, then think that patriotism is their right to have and hold

 

[hullefc]

Why the hell does being proud of your country have to mean you hate everyone else?! You're just making stuff up mate. And you haven't addressed why its cool for all other countries to be proud of their identities but not us. Again, the liberal left have tarnished a positive thing and attached connotations to it. Like if you say 'right wing' you immediately think 'far right racist' yet if you say 'left wing' you think positively. Left wing liberals are probably just as fascist as the far right.

Being 'proud of your country' is always going to be selective. 'Proud' of the things you like and 'not proud' and/or turn a blind eye to the things the government does in the name of the country that is not good.

There are people in all countries that are not 'proud' of their country and the things they do.

 

[EFCNIK]

Most of what he says isn't true though. His Sikh mate isn't old Guramit Singh, is it?

Not sure tbh, not really the crowd I'd hang around with. There are black people and Asian people and as far as Im aware there's a Hindu section of The EDL too. It's not a racist group as the media portray although Im sure there are racist people in it. Just like there are in the police, or in The NHS or I dare say it lining the terraces at Goodison. The point I was trying to make is that he is interested in dialogue, Ive seen him sitting in a costa service station 1 on 1 with an imam having a discussion with my own eyes, so I'm sure he does it fairly regularly.. The EDL are a rather ugly symptom of the problem. No problem, no EDL. People shouldn't just shut off from them, they should listen and try to understand. There needs to be dialogue between both sides, as the growing resentment of not being listened to is making them grow bigger and attract a larger audience. People say they don't like them because they are violent, I can tell you that the threats of violence and acts of violence from muslims and the ironically named fascist group 'unite against facism' against The EDL far out way the other way round but with little or no arrests. Again, I cant stress how much I would never affiliate myself with The EDL, it has a LOT of problems and a lot of scumbags. but it also has a lot of decent people who are just sick to death of whats going on and want a way to be heard. Its just not happening at the moment. Rather than sweep stuff under the carpet, address it, face up to it, take a stand and admit its wrong without being afraid of offending. WE would all, including the muslim community, be much better off.