Relegation 2022/23

[Stuartisitc1878]

Makes you feel even more bemused that we pissed £500m up the wall. Spurs were 1 minute away from going third, and they’re all having a meltdown.

Man Utd haven’t scored for 7 weeks, and they’re still in the top 4.

lol

If only we’d got it right, instead of spending money on Tosun, Schneiderlin etc…

joins a long list of Everton 'If Only' moments.
File it under Banned from Europe, Kings Dock, or Kenwright turning away Sheikh Mansour.

 

[LucBesson]

Just cant make everyone happy, not sure as he is said dinosaur manager who plays for a draw and hoping to nick one somehow. When tonight we had 15 shots 6 on target, would love how else he could set up this team. I hate this idea of dyche and is football if this is dinosaur football what was the rubbish we seen with lampard

It's early Moyes ball with Carsley / Gravesen. Over time he added a sprinkle of quality with Baines, Pienaar, Arteta. Hopefully we stay up and Dyche can do similar. This kind of ferocious all-action football suits this football club and Goodison's atmosphere in particular.

 

[judge]

I fear for us. If we assume an average of 3pts from any home fixture against a team from 13th place (Palace) or lower and 1pt against any teams above that. Away games will be 1pt (bottom 'half') and 0pts (top 'half'), then we're sunk. I know that we might win the odd unexpected one, but then we could easily not win an 'expected' one (and we certainly won't win away from home). Letting Frank throw the points away at home to Wolves & Southampton (and away to West Ham?) was criminal negligence and will probably be the decision that relagates us.

 

[davek]

No chance. We will have to do it the hard way. I can see up picking up plenty of battling draws but we are going to struggle to win the games required to put us out of our misery early.

To use a Cricket analogy we are not going to chase this total down by hitting clean boundaries with a couple of overs to spare. We are going to have to nudge and nurdle our way to safety with a ball or two to spare. Can Dyche be our Stokes

No other club is picking a lot of wins.

As I said: consistency gets us safe.

That's what we've done under Dyche. I FULLY expect that to continue.

We'll get 38/39 points.

 

[mccole]

I think we win that if Doucoure doesn't get sent off.

This game came at the wrong time with an international break and Conte gone, we could have lost this because Spurs have match winners in that team.

A good point with us down to 10 men and a penalty.

If we stay out of the bottom 3 before we play Man United, it puts us in a positive position and IF we can keep our unbeaten run going after this, we are on the right path.

3 wins and 3 draws (12 points) is VERY achievable and I think we can better it also.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It's early Moyes ball with Carsley / Gravesen. Over time he added a sprinkle of quality with Baines, Pienaar, Arteta. Hopefully we stay up and Dyche can do similar. This kind of ferocious all-action football suits this football club and Goodison's atmosphere in particular.

The thing about football is the perception of the quality is often just shaped by results. During the peak Moyes years 2007-12 we played some brilliant passing football. Inverted wingers, overlapping fullbacks, false 9s, whatever hipster tactical term people throw out now we were doing it.

Howard just rolled it out to Lescott or Baines and we were away with unbelievable combination play between Pienaar Osman Arteta Baines Yakubu etc. Some of the goals in that period are out of this world combination moves. We didn’t have a target man or anyone with height at that point, and even when Fellaini played we were getting it into his feet and chest to control. Despite this thought we just got given the ‘direct long ball’ tag by the media no matter what.

Meanwhile Chelsea and Liverpool under Mourinho and Benitez were winning trophies playing a brand of football that involved low block defences, numerous massive grock holding mids, and hitting long balls to a target man hoping for a knock down to Lampard or Gerrard to smash in. They both majored on set pieces as well. It was risk free, low mistake, direct long ball football. You never heard it pointed out in the media though.

The best football is the one that wins so I’m not arguing that under Moyes we were better than these sides, we weren’t. We were slow all over the team, weak, short, and didn’t have the power to play top 4 teams away from home, or the pace to play on the counter.

But it does make me laugh when people say we played direct football under Moyes. Like who would even compete for the long ball? We’d all be donating organs to see some of the passing moves we saw during that period in the current team.

 

[davek]

The thing about football is the perception of the quality is often just shaped by results. During the peak Moyes years 2007-12 we played some brilliant passing football. Inverted wingers, overlapping fullbacks, false 9s, whatever hipster tactical term people throw out now we were doing it.

Howard just rolled it out to Lescott or Baines and we were away with unbelievable combination play between Pienaar Osman Arteta Baines Yakubu etc. Some of the goals in that period are out of this world combination moves. We didn’t have a target man or anyone with height at that point, and even when Fellaini played we were getting it into his feet and chest to control. Despite this thought we just got given the ‘direct long ball’ tag by the media no matter what.

Meanwhile Chelsea and Liverpool under Mourinho and Benitez were winning trophies playing a brand of football that involved low block defences, numerous massive grock holding mids, and hitting long balls to a target man hoping for a knock down to Lampard or Gerrard to smash in. They both majored on set pieces as well. It was risk free, low mistake, direct long ball football. You never heard it pointed out in the media though.

The best football is the one that wins so I’m not arguing that under Moyes we were better than these sides, we weren’t. We were slow all over the team, weak, short, and didn’t have the power to play top 4 teams away from home, or the pace to play on the counter.

But it does make me laugh when people say we played direct football under Moyes. Like who would even compete for the long ball? We’d all be donating organs to see some of the passing moves we saw during that period in the current team.

Moyes at PNE before he joined us had them playing very tidy football. They beat us with it too.

Martinez transformed matters when he came in in terms of style of play, but it was only because the players who could handle the transition were already there (with the addition of Barry and McCarthy) that he was able to do so.

Moyes' big problem was having no faith in the quality of the players he brought in. He should have let them off the leash a lot more than he did, and we reverted a lot in all his time here to that big long diagonal ball front to back for Ferguson/Cahill/Fellaini to knock down and win the second ball.

 

[JP5]

No chance. We will have to do it the hard way. I can see up picking up plenty of battling draws but we are going to struggle to win the games required to put us out of our misery early.

To use a Cricket analogy we are not going to chase this total down by hitting clean boundaries with a couple of overs to spare. We are going to have to nudge and nurdle our way to safety with a ball or two to spare. Can Dyche be our Stokes

Two wins is what we need. This side isn’t losing many. 3 of the last 9 max I’d say. That would put us on 37 which would sss us safe.

All the teams around us have to play each other a few times and so it’s going to mean that it’ll take fewer points to survive than you’d think.

 

[badloaf]

The thing about football is the perception of the quality is often just shaped by results. During the peak Moyes years 2007-12 we played some brilliant passing football. Inverted wingers, overlapping fullbacks, false 9s, whatever hipster tactical term people throw out now we were doing it.

Howard just rolled it out to Lescott or Baines and we were away with unbelievable combination play between Pienaar Osman Arteta Baines Yakubu etc. Some of the goals in that period are out of this world combination moves. We didn’t have a target man or anyone with height at that point, and even when Fellaini played we were getting it into his feet and chest to control. Despite this thought we just got given the ‘direct long ball’ tag by the media no matter what.

Meanwhile Chelsea and Liverpool under Mourinho and Benitez were winning trophies playing a brand of football that involved low block defences, numerous massive grock holding mids, and hitting long balls to a target man hoping for a knock down to Lampard or Gerrard to smash in. They both majored on set pieces as well. It was risk free, low mistake, direct long ball football. You never heard it pointed out in the media though.

The best football is the one that wins so I’m not arguing that under Moyes we were better than these sides, we weren’t. We were slow all over the team, weak, short, and didn’t have the power to play top 4 teams away from home, or the pace to play on the counter.

But it does make me laugh when people say we played direct football under Moyes. Like who would even compete for the long ball? We’d all be donating organs to see some of the passing moves we saw during that period in the current team.

Slow is the best definition of that era. You wonder what we might have done if we’d had real pace throughout the team.

 

[Khalekan]

Dogs of War II. You might not like the football but you will like the fight for the shirt. Needs must. This isn’t about winning a cup it’s about getting the points to stay up. Anyone complaining about the quality of the football wants to start thinking of the mentality Dyche has installed, thinking about the form table, thinking about bottle. Could they see a Lampard team coming from behind twice at Chelsea and then last minute equalizer at home to Spurs. They would have buckled, we would have boo’d. You can only play the cards in your hand and fair play to Dyche he is playing them to gain points not plaudits.

To be honest, I don’t think there is much wrong with the quality of the football.

I was expecting Dycheball to be agricultural hoofball.

But it isn’t.

There are lots of neat little triangles, wing play and playing out from the back.

If we had a cutting edge up front we would really be in busines.

 

[Drico]

Moyes at PNE before he joined us had them playing very tidy football. They beat us with it too.

Martinez transformed matters when he came in in terms of style of play, but it was only because the players who could handle the transition were already there (with the addition of Barry and McCarthy) that he was able to do so.

Moyes' big problem was having no faith in the quality of the players he brought in. He should have let them off the leash a lot more than he did, and we reverted a lot in all his time here to that big long diagonal ball front to back for Ferguson/Cahill/Fellaini to knock down and win the second ball.

It wasn't the style of football that did for Moyes. It was the mentality of his teams: plucky underdogs who couldn't punch their weight in matches that mattered. And this applied, particularly grievously, in matches where we weren't the underdogs.

The results that did for Moyes's reputation were the cup matches against Reading and Wigan as much as the Wembley defeats to Chelsea or Liverpool. If you are going to make your fortune as the man whose sides punch above their weight (which his teams did in the league given the financial restrictions he operated under), then it is massively damaging when you are in the last eight of the cup with only Man City, a team you regularly humble, left as serious opposition, and go out to a lower league side.

There was too much of that with Moyes: his sides often found a way to lose the big games when opportunity finally came-a-knockin.

Moyes pretty much got all he could out of his resources in the league over this time here. He just completely underachieved in the big moments in the cup - and a club like ours could really only hope to win a cup. So, that stung.

A good manager. Not a great manager.

 

[davek]

It wasn't the style of football that did for Moyes. It was the mentality of his teams: plucky underdogs who couldn't punch their weight in matches that mattered. And this applied, particularly grievously, in matches where we weren't the underdogs.

The results that did for Moyes's reputation were the cup matches against Reading and Wigan as much as the Wembley defeats to Chelsea or Liverpool. If you are going to make your fortune as the man whose sides punch above their weight (which his teams did in the league given the financial restrictions he operated under), then it is massively damaging when you are in the last eight of the cup with only Man City, a team you regularly humble, left as serious opposition, and go out to a lower league side.

There was too much of that with Moyes: his sides often found a way to lose the big games when opportunity finally came-a-knockin.

Moyes pretty much got all he could out of his resources in the league over this time here. He just completely underachieved in the big moments in the cup - and a club like ours could really only hope to win a cup. So, that stung.

A good manager. Not a great manager.

Agree with that. Especially leaving out Drenthe v Liverpool in the cup SF.

 

[Drico]

Agree with that. Especially leaving out Drenthe v Liverpool in the cup SF.

We craved a cup - and we had the team, on paper, to win one. But Moyes, a bit like Pep in the Champions League, always seemed to overthink those pivotal games.

 

[Khalekan]

I think we win that if Doucoure doesn't get sent off.

This game came at the wrong time with an international break and Conte gone, we could have lost this because Spurs have match winners in that team.

A good point with us down to 10 men and a penalty.

If we stay out of the bottom 3 before we play Man United, it puts us in a positive position and IF we can keep our unbeaten run going after this, we are on the right path.

3 wins and 3 draws (12 points) is VERY achievable and I think we can better it also.

Indeed.

The only two fixtures I am pessimistic about are City here and Brighton away.

Wins at home versus Fulham, the Barcodes and Bournemouth would see us on 36 points and I think we will take at least four points from the other away games.

 

[Drico]

And the problem with Moyes is that he never learns. He was at it again in last season's Europa League. Left in a competition with Rangers and Eintracht Frankfurt, he still managed to go out in the last four. Chances for a club like West Ham do not come more gilt-edged. To paraphrase the man himself: "Winning is not what I do."