Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[eddy]

2 cup semi finals. The emergence of Stones and Barkley, and the trust placed in them. A record premier league points total. Getting to the knockout stages of the Europa.... And, as you allude to, spending £28 million on the hottest young striker in Europe, getting 2 (3 if you count the loan) good seasons out of him and cashing in for a tidy profit when nobody else was willing to pay £28 million for him - Rodgers, and the kopites thought they were the bees knees for getting Mario for £12 million less.

All positives to me mate. Which ones are negatives?

12th is pretty negative. This weekend will see the clubs around us fighting for 3 points, its a must win for us. At the risk of being called negative
we could find ourselves 13th or 14th quite easily, now before the martinez luvvies take a pop at me Im just saying this is a real possibilty, one I hope we do not see as I want the win as much as anyone else.

 

[Zatara]

Why do that when all we are doing is showing you what you are saying about budgets is nonsense excuse to keep a manager. I don't care about any other club other than my own. You on the otherhand are just happy to try win an argument at any cost even if what you actually believe is so laughable.
Thanks for cheering me up today pal by the way. Like listening to a 3 year old that can use a computer

Bit confused here. You realise dont you that i actually was posting to @oldblue + also am not actually writing to anyone 'trying to win an argument'.

I actually just replied to a heap of posts out of courtesy.

My own wish is that Martinez gets a fair amount of money in the summer which would equate to expectations rising to correlate with the fact that he isnt underperforming in the league by much at the moment based on investment.

For some reason thats caused a bunch of you to start bashing on your keyboards "like 3 year olds".

How very interesting that people with that mentality are not patient enough nor open to take other peoples views onboard.

 

[bluewally]

2 cup semi finals. The emergence of Stones and Barkley, and the trust placed in them. A record premier league points total. Getting to the knockout stages of the Europa.... And as you allude to, spending £28 million on the hottest young striker in Europe, getting 2 (3 if you count the loan) good seasons out of him and cashing in for a tidy profit when nobody else was willing to pay £28 million for him - Rodgers, and the kopites thought they were the bees knees for getting Mario for £12 million less.

All positives to me mate. Which ones are negatives?

Getting to two cup semi finals against mostly pitiful opposition just about excluding a below par chelsea. Not a positive. With the luck we had in the draws anything less would be unacceptable.

The emergence of stones and Barkley haha. Like they wouldnt have developed without him. Stones who is naturally gifted and we are told doesnt need coaching is now a shadow of himself and Barkley was on the fringe of the first team 4 years ago and would be there now regardless.

The credit he gets for youth players is ridiculous.

stop with the record points total it's meaningless

Embarrassed in the knockout stages of Europa

A downward league trajectory

Pathetic performances when not playing the bottom 3 or lower division teams with the odd exception

Losing said £28 million pound striker because of 2 seasons of severe underachievment

 

[Zatara]

If hes developed these players then they should be overperforming relative to their wages and transfer fee so we should be higher than your 1+1 = 3 calculation would have us believe

He's spent a lot of money over 6 transfer windows and yet he still doesn't have the squad he wants. Demon in the transfer market. Lets give him more

Which positions would you say hes actually spent money on though? Like a decent amount to expect quality in that position?

 

[bluewally]

Which positions would you say hes actually spent money on though? Like a decent amount to expect quality in that position?

I've listed these already Zat.

You say that every part of the squad where he spent money has improved.

Show me

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

My own wish is that Martinez gets a fair amount of money in the summer which would equate to expectations rising to correlate with the fact that he isnt underperforming in the league by much at the moment based on investment.

Zat - i like debating with you mate - don't take much offence!

You know you mention the wage and spend of the club dictates where we should be... do you know where the club targets each year to be based on budgets and income from the league (i found this recently ill dig it out again)? Top 7, therefor if thats the case then the club has set a minimum target which martinez has failed to achieve 2 years running. Would you agree?

While income from the league isn't probably seen as a major factor, the fact we budget and set targets for a position should be something that Martinez is judged by.

 

[a bell maul]

He would be gone if they really thought relegation was possible. Only manager who has survived that was Moyes. Think that was a very different relationship

You are probably right. But my point was that were such to occur, I would be disappointed if RM then jumped ship. His 'the job is beyond me now" (i.e. I can't get you back into PL) stance when Wigan got relegated is a bit of a blight on his copybook. Were he at the helm of Everton in similar circumstance, I (and I am sure, you) would expect him to stick with the ship and navigate it back toward fairer waters. He undoubtedly has the skippering skills to do so...else he wouldn't be Everton's manager in the first place.

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

2 cup semi finals. The emergence of Stones and Barkley, and the trust placed in them. A record premier league points total. Getting to the knockout stages of the Europa.... And, as you allude to, spending £28 million on the hottest young striker in Europe, getting 2 (3 if you count the loan) good seasons out of him and cashing in for a tidy profit when nobody else was willing to pay £28 million for him - Rodgers, and the kopites thought they were the bees knees for getting Mario for £12 million less.

All positives to me mate. Which ones are negatives?

These things are positives - but you'd need to be an ostrich to not also see and by now be frustrated by the negatives, as well as putting is first season in context......

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Getting to two cup semi finals against mostly pitiful opposition just about excluding a below par chelsea. Not a positive. With the luck we had in the draws anything less would be unacceptable.

The emergence of stones and Barkley haha. Like they wouldnt have developed without him. Stones who is naturally gifted and we are told doesnt need coaching is now a shadow of himself and Barkley was on the fringe of the first team 4 years ago and would be there now regardless.

The credit he gets for youth players is ridiculous.

stop with the record points total it's meaningless

Embarrassed in the knockout stages of Europa

A downward league trajectory

Pathetic performances when not playing the bottom 3 or lower division teams with the odd exception

Losing said £28 million pound striker because of 2 seasons of severe underachievment

Don't get me started with my youth rant again!!! hahahahaha

 

[BlueShark]

Getting to two cup semi finals against mostly pitiful opposition just about excluding a below par chelsea. Not a positive. With the luck we had in the draws anything less would be unacceptable.

The emergence of stones and Barkley haha. Like they wouldnt have developed without him. Stones who is naturally gifted and we are told doesnt need coaching is now a shadow of himself and Barkley was on the fringe of the first team 4 years ago and would be there now regardless.

The credit he gets for youth players is ridiculous.

stop with the record points total it's meaningless

Embarrassed in the knockout stages of Europa

A downward league trajectory

Pathetic performances when not playing the bottom 3 or lower division teams with the odd exception

Losing said £28 million pound striker because of 2 seasons of severe underachievment

You can add Coleman to that whose 'progress' has actually gone backwards this season.

 

[Zatara]

It is a horrible thought, Martinez on the pitch at Wembley beaming with pride at his 'achievements'.

So you would rather not win the cup with martinez as manager?

 

[bluewally]

Which positions would you say hes actually spent money on though? Like a decent amount to expect quality in that position?

I even disagree there. The squad where he has spent cash looks great. Where he hasnt yet looks weak.

@Zatara here you go.

He's spent money on 3 defensive mids and we leak goals

Hes spent money on 3 strikers and only 1 of them is any use

He's spent money on 3 wingers and only plays one of them

He's spent money on 2 CB's sold one and you can't say Mori is a success yet

 

[oldblue]

You are probably right. But my point was that were such to occur, I would be disappointed if RM then jumped ship. His 'the job is beyond me now" (i.e. I can't get you back into PL) stance when Wigan got relegated is a bit of a blight on his copybook. Were he at the helm of Everton in similar circumstance, I (and I am sure, you) would expect him to stick with the ship and navigate it back toward fairer waters. He undoubtedly has the skippering skills to do so...else he wouldn't be Everton's manager in the first place.

Yeah I'd hope he'd see that as his job but unlikely to occur.
Different situation for me to Wigan in that they were really not naturally a top flight team and getting them back there and staying there was not something a manager could realistically promise without major commitment from the chairman.
I think getting us back up would be something he'd accept was not his forte and we'd see soundbites about staying then mutually agreed changes.
But in reality he'd be gone well before.

 

[Zatara]

No it isn't a "horrible thought".

Any Evertonian should be delighted at the thoughts of their manager, whether they like him or not, "beaming with pride" on the Wembley pitch after winning the Cup.

Because we all want to be "beaming with pride" at Wembley.....on the pitch and off it.

Some of these comments are getting plain ridiculous now.

Imagine not wanting to win a cup because you dont like a manager?

It doesnt even make any sense...

 

[bluewally]

Imagine not wanting to win a cup because you dont like a manager?

It doesnt even make any sense...

Imagine not caring about league position or lack of progress because you do like a manager?

It doesnt even make any sense...