Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Brennan]

Are you for real? We had this exact conversation 8 days ago. How would I not remember, I'm not a Gold Fish.

Youre certainly not a gold fish. They don't live their life on Internet forums.

 

[daz4matty]

TBF I wouldn't call it people, that'd suggest loads are up to it. But anyone who within minutes of an Everton victory comes on here or the other thread to have digs as appose just enjoying the victory is Sad. That's what you did after Stoke, which was IMO pathetic, you've compiled it by counting my posts in a 48hr period.

Think you have a stalker dude

 

[ianefc]

I'm not the one calling people sad acts though.

You sure? What was it you were suggesting here then?

80 posts in two days.

 

[ianefc]

Youre certainly not a gold fish. They don't live their life on Internet forums.

I'm not on here anywhere near as much as you're implying. I posted about 10 times tops in the week.

 

[ianefc]

Think you have a stalker dude

If he's a stalker, he's a crap one as he's getting nothing right.

 

[daz4matty]

If he's a stalker, he's a crap one as he's getting nothing right.

Thats part of his plan

 

[Jonahjones]

*legs it

The worst part about this is that the team at the very bottom of our league and one that is nine points from safety conceded 6 (six) goals at home today and have still conceded 3 less goals than us at home.

Absolutely mind-blowing.

 

[matty1878]

Nil satis nisi optimum clearly means nothing to most of our half assed aren't assed fans. If you really really cared
You would be upset disgusted and Wanting Change like now. Not last summer not this summer not the summer after. Results don't lie and that's the key.

 

[bitter-no-better]

The worst part about this is that the team at the very bottom of our league and one that is nine points from safety conceded 6 (six) goals at home today and have still conceded 3 less goals than us at home.

Absolutely mind-blowing.

not as mind blowing as realising we have the 6th best goal difference in the league.

 

[DrEFC]

Stays/Goes.. we have no say, nor sway. We account for only a small amount of profit so we're not really vital from a decision-making POV.

 

[orly]

When you compare Martinez’s overall top flight record with Pulis’ they are virtually the same with the Baggies boss currently ever so slightly ahead.

Martinez’s tally now stands at played 254, won 70, drawn 74 and lost 101 while Pulis is played 272, won 87, drawn 79 and lost 106.

This equates at Martinez: won 31%, drawn 29% and lost 40% with an average of 1.22 points per game; Pulis: won 32%, drawn 29% and lost 39% with an average of 1.25 points per game.

Genuine horror here http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor.../everton-roberto-martinez-tony-pulis-10890564

 

[Tree13]

I'm still waiting for your response @davek ...

Well spotted mate. I said it in plain English. Have a peanut.


Three seasons ago he ran up our best PL record. And all credit to him for that. He made incisive substitutions on a regular basis, showed no favouritism in his team selections and made very good use of the players available to him. He also made three brilliant moves in the loans market. He has generally since then done fairly well in the transfer market and strengthened the squad, but let's not pretend he's got EVERY move right: McGeady? Alcaraz? Kone? All poor moves. At least they haven't been big-money poor moves, but Alcaraz cost us several points last year all by himself.

When we play well under Martinez, we play very well indeed. Many instances spring to mind from last season, particularly in the two games against Wolfsburg. When everything clicks it is definitely the best football we've played since the mid-80s... but it doesn't click all that often. Too often in fact it goes badly wrong and the manager stubbornly refuses to make changes. It also somewhat misleading to refer to it as the best football we've played since the 80s, because the football we played in the 90's and early 00's was absolutely dire, for the most part.


We aren't a top eight team unless we regularly finish in the top eight. Your position in February does not automatically determine your position at the end of the season. The issue is the trend over time - under Martinez we started very well (looking and playing like a top six team throughout his first season, getting results in keeping with that and thus finishing in the top six) but have steadily got worse since then, evidenced by regular poor results against traditionally bottom-half teams and newly promoted teams, culminating in final league positions at a lower level. We've spent most of this season in the bottom half of the table, despite scoring more than almost every other club in the prem - some draw parallels between this scenario and the fate that befell Wigan not so long ago.... and they have a point.


What doomsday scenario is that? I have made no such statement, Captain Agenda. I've simply observed that the evidence from Roberto's tenure to date raises questions about his ability to get us competing for a CL spot - you, know, because we have most recently finished FURTHER away from those spots than we did before. It's a results-driven league Dave: you don't get moved up the table for playing "your best football since the 80s", you move up the table by WINNING. And we don't do enough WINNING.


That's YOUR bottom line. Here on planet Earth Martinez is not doing OK. Although he has got it right on several individual occasions, he seems unable to string a run of decent results together and appears particularly susceptible to tactical errors and stubbornness. The team is developing, but not as quickly as it should because of his favouritism being shown in his selection and substitution decisions.

The only thing you are right about is that this board won't sack him.

 

[McBain]

@fozzy

 

[Ashtonian]

See i think this is the real moment for martinez to drag himself through as looking a half decent manager. Said it over the weekend, i'm happy to give this game to roberto as a one off 'one of those games' ala palace earlier in the season, rather than beat him with it as we did attack and we did apply the pressure.

BUT

From this point on, there isnt anti football teams to play, so theoretically this is where these 2 wins we just got should be built on. We were never going to win every game between now and may, so now we need to start winning games and kick on from now, not 2 weeks ago. top 6/7 finish competitively will be fine in my eyes, a midtable won't. And not winning enough games between now and the end of the season should cost him his job, said it before if he isnt winning us games then why is he here?

no more excuses, no more false dawns. Bill may not sack the manager, but i can guarantee you the new owners would.

 

[davek]

I'm still waiting for your response @davek ...

Well, in all that you seem to be in agreement with much of what I said anyway, so no real pressing need to respond. On the point you make about getting no nearer CL spots in the last two seasons: yes, that is the case. And? Do you think we were ever in the mix up for a CL place in all but a couple of seasons under Moyes for 11 seasons? We weren't. This club is not defined as a success by getting CL spots. It's just not. When did we suddenly acquire this belief that if we dont get our noses at least pressed up against the window of a CL spot then it's failure? The only failure (of sorts) I acknowledge from this season is the failure to make a 3-1 aggregate scoreline against Man City in the second leg count as a winning margin and get to a cup final - because that was a realistic target and in our grasp and we failed to defend it adequately against a frankly ropey City team. The fact we are not in the shake up for a CL spot does not surprise me one bit given our PL record - and why should it? And why should anyone expect a CL spot tilt when it's only been achieved before in a fluke season when a paltry 61 points sneaked a team over the line for the 4th spot?

Look, things are getting more and more competitive in this league. Can we compete with our players? No, not until we sort a GK position out good and proper and strengthen the back four considerably. If we do that then we can talk about giving the financial elite clubs a scare next season. But this club's supporters should never expect any such season. As an ambition yes, but never an expectation.