I may be wrong but didn't Gaz baz have 2 out of the 6 on target
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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
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chazzle_dazzle
Player Valuation: £35m
People keep referencing his first season, but what happens if thats the fluke?
Its been a bad 2 seasons, and the feeling is that the cup runs are making up for it - they mean nothing if you don't win it.
Id like to see a change, but think there won't be - I think the top level lack the balls to do anything. I said after his first season, rate him at the end of the second due to first season syndrome, at the end of the second i said rate him next season incase it was just too much with Europe.
Attacking football is brilliant, when you win. If he can't plug the gaps in his skill set after 10 years (give or take) in management he never will.
Its been a bad 2 seasons, and the feeling is that the cup runs are making up for it - they mean nothing if you don't win it.
Id like to see a change, but think there won't be - I think the top level lack the balls to do anything. I said after his first season, rate him at the end of the second due to first season syndrome, at the end of the second i said rate him next season incase it was just too much with Europe.
Attacking football is brilliant, when you win. If he can't plug the gaps in his skill set after 10 years (give or take) in management he never will.
That sums it up.
And that is why Deulefou should have been the first name on the teamsheet on Saturday.
There is no excuse for starting that game with Barry, McCarthy and The Clev on the pitch together.
It was Pulis.....every bugger in the Royal Oak knew what he was going to do.
Bobby let himself down by appearing not to, IMO.
blue62
Player Valuation: £5m
I wonder how secure Martinez really is, there are no noises coming from inside the club. I'm on the fence, if he could stop mugging us all off in his press conferences and show more savvy in terms of changing the play I would give him another season, but listening to him has my buttocks clenching in a way only Brendon Rodgers could do.
My personal position remains the same: unless there's a clear managerial candidate available right now that could improve the team I see no good reason to make any change. I think the vocal 'out' people should think carefully about who could possibly come in at this stage in a season.
That being said, as it stands right now I'd like to see Martinez replaced in the summer when there might be scope to select from a wider pool of managerial talent. This is the first time I've genuinely felt this way and it's less a reaction to the WBA game than something that's been building through a consideration of what's coming up to three full seasons here. The points that get me to this conclusion are as follows:
The above is a summation of problems that started around the mid-point in Martinez's first - granted very good - season and have worsened rather than being resolved. Part of the reason I'm for Martinez remaining until the summer is that he's clearly shown evidence of producing excellent football and I hold faint hope that he might do so again. An upturn in results in the final third of the season might change my opinion. However, another finish in the bottom half of the table will mean, to my mind, he has failed to do his job adequately for two years and therefore doesn't deserve to keep it.
That being said, as it stands right now I'd like to see Martinez replaced in the summer when there might be scope to select from a wider pool of managerial talent. This is the first time I've genuinely felt this way and it's less a reaction to the WBA game than something that's been building through a consideration of what's coming up to three full seasons here. The points that get me to this conclusion are as follows:
- League placing: prior to last season we had finished in the top eight for eight successive seasons. To put that in perspective, in our entire history, we've only achieved that level of consistency twice: once under Kendall in the 80s, and once in the 1890s. Martinez, despite assembling a better squad that we've previously seen in the PL era, appears on course for successive finishes outside the top eight and possibly in the bottom half of the league. The argument that 5th-8th finishes aren't worth anything might be true, but they're better than 11th.
- Defense: closing in on seven seasons in top-tier management, Martinez has been unsuccessful in addressing his biggest tactical weakness. We have, in recent weeks, looked a little better without Stones and Howard, but too often it's apparent the necessary work isn't being done on the training ground and it doesn't seem like that will ever change.
- Mentality and communication: this is the biggest disappointment for me. While we have, on occasions, clicked and looked excellent, far too often the players don't seem to have a collective understanding of what they're supposed to be doing. We have, more than any other team I've ever seen, witnessed game after game players running themselves into trouble because they either don't have a passing outlet or seem to be getting instructed to hold onto the ball for longer than usual. If this tactic had some benefit I'd understand, but in reality it mostly just leads to individual errors, players being pulled into odd positions, and the loss of possession. In addition, we simply don't work hard enough for each other, especially when it comes to moving into space to receive a pass. It's up to Martinez to instill the right blend of tactical awareness and desire in the players and, so far, he's failing to do it.
- The fans: the opening stages of the WBA game was an excellent example of how Goodison will get behind a team looking to win. However, there's a palpable sourness towards Martinez and the way he has us playing right now that will become more and more corrosive. It's not just a negative minority any more, but a large portion of the reasonable fanbase who are disillusioned with the appalling home form. The players are feeling it and it can't be ignored.
The above is a summation of problems that started around the mid-point in Martinez's first - granted very good - season and have worsened rather than being resolved. Part of the reason I'm for Martinez remaining until the summer is that he's clearly shown evidence of producing excellent football and I hold faint hope that he might do so again. An upturn in results in the final third of the season might change my opinion. However, another finish in the bottom half of the table will mean, to my mind, he has failed to do his job adequately for two years and therefore doesn't deserve to keep it.
Hmmmmmm. You need to read it again pal.
sixtynineseventy
Player Valuation: £1.5m
So how many more home losses or defeats from winning positions do we have to suffer before the pro-brown shoes brigade accept he is not up to the job. After nearly two years of rinse and repeat performances with poor tactical decisions and outcomes it seems to me he is not the man to take Everton forward.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Well, the last time I took a look at the rules it said that you get three points for a win away from home as well as those at home. WTF does it matter where they get secured? What you seem to be saying is that if Everton's away form was their home form then the 35 points were on wouldn't be so bad. That's the only conclusion to draw from your emphasis on home games.
Leicester play hoofball. They have four grocks at the back who just shovel it out of the area. We are trying to play football. Those four you mention are woeful. Robert Huth? FFS. Is that the type of zombie you wat to see in an Everton shirt?
They are a bog standard unit that wouldn't work in our set up. Any ale house team manager can set up Leicester's back four given the basic way they play football from back to front in a hurry.
Fans are fickle. Here's why: if we'd have got the three points on Saturday then we'd have been four points off top five and no one but no one would be asking questions about this manager right now. Just 90 minutes of football and one result.
No one here could dispute that. So that's why I dont take any kneejerking seriously after a loss like this. It's like short term memory syndrome: forgotten are the three preceding games and all is doom and gloom. How you live like that I have no idea. It must be horrible.
Consistency, long term analysis of where we are and where where going as a club - that's the only way to analyse this team and manager. If you do that then you come to a different conclusion than this
No, I got you the first time. And I recognise a sidestep on the CL places stuff, so well in on that at least.
Fans are fickle. Here's why: if we'd have got the three points on Saturday then we'd have been four points off top five and no one but no one would be asking questions about this manager right now. Just 90 minutes of football and one result.
No one here could dispute that. So that's why I dont take any kneejerking seriously after a loss like this. It's like short term memory syndrome: forgotten are the three preceding games and all is doom and gloom. How you live like that I have no idea. It must be horrible.
Consistency, long term analysis of where we are and where where going as a club - that's the only way to analyse this team and manager. If you do that then you come to a different conclusion than this
No, I got you the first time. And I recognise a sidestep on the CL places stuff, so well in on that at least.
But we didn't and we're not. How many times have we said something like this all season. It's just not changing.
Yet it's working, isn't it? Because they have a manager who has allowed them to play in the way they are comfortable in order to compete, and allows them to exploit weaknesses in an opposition from game to game.
Our manager, on the other hand, continues to shoehorn a failing strategy on a team every week that is proven over the course of two years now to not get results.
It's pragmatism winning over idealism. We have the better players, we get the poorer performances. Where does the buck stop for that do you think?
BlueStevie35
Player Valuation: £70m
Despite the fact that we are in distance of Europe, and 2 games from a second semi final of the season, I sadly think it's for the best if both sides part ways in the summer. Our defensive problems are what's holding us back massively otherwise we'd be in a much stronger position right now
beautifulthing
Player Valuation: £750k
Why would any organisation want to continue paying very high wages to someone who clearly isn't up to the job?
What kind of fruitcakes run Everton?
What kind of fruitcakes run Everton?
Jimmy1
Player Valuation: £1.5m
Well, the last time I took a look at the rules it said that you get three points for a win away from home as well as those at home. WTF does it matter where they get secured? What you seem to be saying is that if Everton's away form was their home form then the 35 points were on wouldn't be so bad. That's the only conclusion to draw from your emphasis on home games.
Leicester play hoofball. They have four grocks at the back who just shovel it out of the area. We are trying to play football. Those four you mention are woeful. Robert Huth? FFS. Is that the type of zombie you wat to see in an Everton shirt?
They are a bog standard unit that wouldn't work in our set up. Any ale house team manager can set up Leicester's back four given the basic way they play football from back to front in a hurry.
Fans are fickle. Here's why: if we'd have got the three points on Saturday then we'd have been four points off top five and no one but no one would be asking questions about this manager right now. Just 90 minutes of football and one result.
No one here could dispute that. So that's why I dont take any kneejerking seriously after a loss like this. It's like short term memory syndrome: forgotten are the three preceding games and all is doom and gloom. How you live like that I have no idea. It must be horrible.
Consistency, long term analysis of where we are and where where going as a club - that's the only way to analyse this team and manager. If you do that then you come to a different conclusion than this
No, I got you the first time. And I recognise a sidestep on the CL places stuff, so well in on that at least.
Martinez has deserved the stick he's got for this season in my opinion however I agree about the knee jerking after Saturdays result. That game was just one of them games. I don't even know how Martinez tactically could have altered things when WBA just had 11 players in their box. We needed a bit of luck, a deflection or something but it didn't happen. Just one of those days.
I think the form overall this seasons means any slip up will be pounced on.
BlueStevie35
Player Valuation: £70m
Rum & raisin, Cherry and Apple and Walnut
But seriously I would hazard a guess that Bill does the main running but no one else gets involved in club matters unless there's a meeting
He could have played two wingers instead of holding midfielders and stretched the game.
He could have instructed the side to play quicker, looking to hit give and go passes off the target man pinned to their centre-halves all game.
Given the lack of threat going the other way, in the last 15 he could have even gone with two wingers and two strikers and took off a full back or centre half.
There were countless things he could have done; he did nothing. All he did was make like for like changes and keep doing the same thing over and over again.
It wasn't "one of those games" - WBA set out to defend, invited us to break them down, and our manager didn't manage the game (yet again) and WBA saw out the result. We did nothing whatsoever to attempt to change the outcome in game.
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