Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[By god I'm blue]

At a time when we only had Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea probably as the only decent sides in the league. All the rest were meh!!!

So to make your point, you are actually belittling what Moyes did? Oh my, a new low on here!

 

[Pabbers]

Moyes got us 4th, with a much worst team...clearly the winner there. Martinez did win a cup with Wigan though, but anybody can get lucky in cups, even Portsmouth won one and Millwall got to a final! Martinez has done nothing thus far with Everton, FACT

As for me being fickle, it is called being adaptable in my case. You should try it sometime, I don't mind you using me as a role model

Then by your very own measure's, neither did Moyes.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Then by your very own measure's, neither did Moyes.

We are talking about CL qualification, as a certain poster keeps wetting his kex about that magnificent 5th place finish. Whereas Moyes actually went one better and got us in a top 4 spot, albeit with a much inferior side to the one Bobby inherited.

 

[Pabbers]

We are talking about CL qualification, as a certain poster keeps wetting his kex about that magnificent 5th place finish. Whereas Moyes actually went one better and got us in a top 4 spot, albeit with a much inferior side to the one Bobby inherited.

We didn't qualify mate, we suffered our most embarrassing 2 weeks in decades.

 

[By god I'm blue]

We didn't qualify mate.

Oh FFS! top 4 finish to put us in for CL qualification then. Stop being pedantic, there is no need.

 

[Pabbers]

Oh FFS! top 4 finish to put us in for CL qualification then. Stop being pedantic, there is no need.

Sorry mate, but we finished 4th yes great, woohooo.....But failed to qualify for the CL or The Europa, in the 10 days!!!!!

It made finishing 4th completely pointless, we gained nothing but humiliation.

 

[By god I'm blue]

We didn't qualify mate, we suffered our most embarrassing 2 weeks in decades.

Do explain?

Edit: you explained above

We lost to a side that were a penalty away from the final and were one of the best teams in Spain and Europe for that year.

 

[Pabbers]

Do explain?

Going out of 2 European completions in 10 days........CL and then loosing to Buccarest 5-1 in 10 days.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Going out of 2 European completions in 10 days........CL and then loosing to Buccarest 5-2 in 10 days.

The deflation of missing out on CL the way it happened etc would have been hard for any side to handle. Bucharest was just the knock on effect. A bit like the 5-1 mauling in Kiev last season, probably best just erased from the memory.

I am failing to see your point here completely though. I don't feel the need to harp on too much about the Moyes era, it's long gone and a distant memory. My point was with Dave who seems to be comparing Moyes to Pulis and Martinez to Guardiola (in a sense) as to what they are in footballing terms. Moyes had us playing some great stuff and turned us from regular bottom half finishers into regular top half finishers on a shoe string budget.........now he slates him openly. Now that is what I call fickle! People soon forget, or pretend to forget in an effort to ram home the current point they are trying to make.

Just for the record, Moyes also got us to an FA cup final and narrowly lost to a very good Chelsea side with the likes of Hibbert in the side. However, as I have pointed out previously, cups are cups and anybody can have a good run, though we did knock out some top PL sides on the way to the final, Villa, Liverpool and Man U.

 

[Pabbers]

The deflation of missing out on CL the way it happened etc would have been hard for any side to handle. Bucharest was just the knock on effect. A bit like the 5-1 mauling in Kiev last season, probably best just erased from the memory.

I am failing to see your point here completely though. I don't feel the need to harp on too much about the Moyes era, it's long gone and a distant memory. My point was with Dave who seems to be comparing Moyes to Pulis and Martinez to Guardiola (in a sense) as to what they are in footballing terms. Moyes had us playing some great stuff and turned us from regular bottom half finishers into regular top half finishers on a shoe string budget.........now he slates him openly. Now that is what I call fickle! People soon forget, or pretend to forget in an effort to ram home the current point they are trying to make.

Buccharest were terrible, a very very poor team, Kiev are in the CL now, huge difference in quality.

No excuse for that lose in Romania, the fans that went over their got humiliated by that team, and I was one of them.

How you described Moyes is about how I see him, but he achieved nothing, and the days that stick in my mind the most are the humiliating defeats in Romania, Portugal, Away at Arsenal (while we sat 4th ffs!!!) and those Derby defeats....especially the Gerrard hattrick game

"Moyes had us playing some great stuff and turned us from regular bottom half finishers into regular top half finishers on a shoe string budget"

He did a good job to a degree, but was not successful In real terms, and so far neither is Bobby.

 

[daz4matty]

100m wont buy a 20 goal striker.

We have spent vastly more than that over the years to finally get Lukaku.

This "Sell them, we will have loads of money" viewpoint is flawed beyond belief.

Yes, if Lukaku wants to move, as is likely, theres not a great deal we can do, but to actually want to sell him and Stones, well thats just mental.

Its ok if we sell rom mate.
Looking at the rom thread he seemed to have a lot of haters maybe some fans want fat james beattie back

 

[By god I'm blue]

Buccharest were terrible, a very very poor team, Kiev are in the CL now, huge difference in quality.

No excuse for that lose in Romania, the fans that went over their got humiliated by that team, and I was one of them.

How you described Moyes is about how I see him, but he achieved nothing, and the days that stick in my mind the most are the humiliating defeats in Romania, Portugal, Away at Arsenal (while we sat 4th ffs!!!) and those Derby defeats....especially the Gerrard hattrick game

"Moyes had us playing some great stuff and turned us from regular bottom half finishers into regular top half finishers on a shoe string budget"

He did a good job to a degree, but was not successful In real terms, and so far neither is Bobby.

Moyes gave us an identity again and I for one thank him for it. Others may choose to forget that, its up to them. Yes he had an awful 2nd full season in charge, I cannot deny that and maybe for that reason Bobby should be cut some slack too.

There is no denying that he improved us dramatically from where we were, as opposed to Martinez, who after a smashing first season and since taken us backwards in terms of results and points achieved last season and looks like doing so again this season at this point. There is still a lot of football to be played though this season, so I hope that is not the case.

I really wish for him to turn it around, but as said already, I just cannot see that happening.

 

[daz4matty]

Moyes gave us an identity again and I for one thank him for it. Others may choose to forget that, its up to them. Yes he had an awful 2nd full season in charge, I cannot deny that and maybe for that reason Bobby should be cut some slack too.

There is no denying that he improved us dramatically from where we were, as opposed to Martinez, who after a smashing first season and since taken us backwards in terms of results and points achieved last season and looks like doing so again this season at this point. There is still a lot of football to be played though this season, so I hope that is not the case.

I really wish for him to turn it around, but as said already, I just cannot see that happening.

Moyes was the right man at the right time and did a brilliant job.
Martinez is the wrong man at the right time

 

[davek]

Yeah mid table is mediocrity - completely agree on that point. Are you talking about in the first 3 seasons there? Top of the table finishes, Moyes 4th and Martinez 5th?

Our of them which one do you think was the greatest achievement? 17th - 4th, or 7th to 5th. Martinez took over a team (while it might have been ageing it was more then capable) and gave it some attacking flair.

Since that 5th we have been progressively worse off as a rounded unit, its not hard for anyone to see where his failings are as a manager - and it will be his undoing because from what it looks like he is too stubborn to reassess his belief that what he does will trump everything else.

Like i has said previously mate - i think your support for the man is both amazing and baffling, but thats your opinion. There hasn't been progress currently last season and this season.

But 17th was Moyes' own handiwork - he didn't inherit that, he put Everton there himself. Yes, a fourth place finish after that was very good going. Martinez taking Everton from the 63 points accumulated in Moyes' (final) second best season and adding another 9 points on top was staggering though. I still dont think that effort has been fully digested or comprehended.

Have we gone backward from that? In terms of points and PL position, yes. But in terms of building an overall depth to this squad and the type of football they are even now capable of playing, absolutely not. We're a better football team now than in Martinez's record breaking first season here...and we have a much better bench. The one area that isn't true about is the GK position. Howard was much better when Martinez arrived - he was still an above average PL GK in fact. Now he is turd and Robles isn't at that Howard 2013/14 level to compensate.

 

[banno]

So to make your point, you are actually belittling what Moyes did? Oh my, a new low on here!

You can try and twist what I say as much as you like if it makes you feel better. What I am saying is what I said....do you disagree that the league was not as competitive then as it is now