Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[chazzle_dazzle]

Let's not overdo the quality of the squad Moyes left. They were ageing and Martinez got a new tune out of them. Moyes nearly put us into the Championship before he stabilised the situation. His first three seasons were 7th, 17th, 4th and 11th - with an average of 52 points per season (39 points in one season). Fair to say that would have had the lynch mob out if the sense of entitlement we see today was being shown back then.

Ageing or not, Martinez didn't inherit a bad squad in comparison to what Moyes did - and accomplished something with that squad he hasn't reproduced yet - so it wasn't that bad.

I think this win ratio thing is a load of bull used by people to beat a argument depending which side of the fence @chicoazul put across - its a meaningless stat when Moyes had 11 years and Martinez has had 3. You can't compare an average from 518 games to 129 in my opinion. its not right. If he stays and next season is the same as this the percentage will nose dive and the other side of the fence will use it as an argument, and someone won't like it.

Martinez brought a promise of pushing further, attacking football and everything being rosy. I think its harsh to compare Moyes first 3 seasons to Martinez tbh - which ever side of this cult/plotter crap you stand on, the quality of squad isn't even comparable.

Also - when Moyes took over, we weren't exactly in the top of the table - the expectation was to survive, We are not that club anymore.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

He left them, but also an ageing squad. I'd also say he inherited a team that were frightened to trust themselves to play football. He basically had to adapt what was left to him by Moyes and add some cutting edge in the form of Lukak and Deulofeu.

I see and agree that some of the players were getting on abit - no doubt about that. To say Moyes never played football is a little too harsh IMO, a night like Fiorentina and Liverpool 3-0 spring to mind, don't forget we had little talents like Pienaar and Arteta also Mirallas isn't talentless, gravesen could be useful as is baines, coleman and Jagielka to a degree.

 

[davek]

Yes, but that has proven to be nothing more than a one season wonder at present, as pointed out to you on a painfully vast number of occasions.

What's the point in ramming that up everybody's arses continuously? it doesn't mean jack! It was a one off.....get it? a one off!

An inconvenient truth. You'll be asking me next to forget it happened. Sorry, it did. A massive in yer face 72 points that will remain front and centre...a rock that all the waves of fumage crash upon.

It's all you have left...that and some mythical notion that all football served up under Moyes was awful to watch and Roberto is the second coming of total football. None of it is true, you are making it all up....stop listening to the voices in your addled brain!

Oh look: more insults in the face of reasoned argument.

That Moyes served up muck is not a myth mate. He was a route one manager. And his record since he left underlines what a dullard loser he is.

 

[By god I'm blue]

An inconvenient truth. You'll be asking me next to forget it happened. Sorry, it did. A massive in yer face 72 points that will remain front and centre...a rock that all the waves of fumage crash upon.

Nobody cares anymore...nobody, except...wait for it.....You! does that not make you take a rain check on your stance?

Blabbing on about the same old thing over and over which has no significance. Shall we keep marvelling at how Moyes got us 4th once?

No, because it's boring and of no relevence to where we sit currently.

Ok for the sake of humouring you.....Moyes got us 4th, ergo, has done more than Martinez. End of the Moyes / Martinez debate, thank you and goodnight x

 

[Khalekan]

Yes, but that has proven to be nothing more than a one season wonder at present, as pointed out to you on a painfully vast number of occasions.

What's the point in ramming that up everybody's arses continuously? it doesn't mean jack! It was a one off.....get it? a one off!

It's all you have left...that and some mythical notion that all football served up under Moyes was awful to watch and Roberto is the second coming of total football. None of it is true, you are making it all up....stop listening to the voices in your addled brain!

You can't write him off as a "one season wonder" at this stage of his third season.

If we were to win the F.A. Cup this season, he will actually have achieved as much as Howard did in his first three seasons.

More, in fact, as Bobby led us to a European campaign at the end of his first season.

 

[By god I'm blue]

You can't write him off as a "one season wonder" at this stage of his third season.

If we were to win the F.A. Cup this season, he will actually have achieved as much as Howard did in his first three seasons.

More, in fact, as Bobby led us to a European campaign at the end of his first season.

And if he does, I will say whoopee doo and thank him and love him again. But for now, he stinks the place out.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Moyes took a squad of Scott Gemmil's. Niclas Alexandersson's, Mark Pembridges, Jesper Blomqvists et al and turned them into a regular top 6 side.

Martinez has taken the side Moyes built, added well and is still bombing massively on results. I really don't see the issue here lol

 

[Tree13]

There is a lot of talk on the south coast that koeman is looking for a new challenge and won't sign his contract extension.
Would love him here before this team is broken up.

I was keen on Koeman back when we needed to replace Moyes. His work with Southampton hasn't been earth-shattering, but some of this is no doubt down to the absolute evisceration of the squad Pochettino had assembled - it doesn't seem as if Koeman has been given very much to spend to replace the departing players. Happy to be corrected on that though.

 

[daz4matty]

I was keen on Koeman back when we needed to replace Moyes. His work with Southampton hasn't been earth-shattering, but some of this is no doubt down to the absolute evisceration of the squad Pochettino had assembled - it doesn't seem as if Koeman has been given very much to spend to replace the departing players. Happy to be corrected on that though.

They are 6th in the league having had the last 2 seasons having to sell their treasure.
He has done a brilliant job and they are great to watch oh an can defend

 

[Tree13]

7th is not much difference to 10th, everyone saw us a mid-table under Moyes anyway.

Hopefully Martinez will have a considerably more compelling argument to raise if we finish mid-table again and Stones, Coleman and Lukaku hand in transfer requests this summer.

 

[Pabbers]

Hopefully Martinez will have a considerably more compelling argument to raise if we finish mid-table again and Stones, Coleman and Lukaku hand in transfer requests this summer.

Well that's never happened before, all those players wont leave.

 

[daz4matty]

Let's not overdo the quality of the squad Moyes left. They were ageing and Martinez got a new tune out of them. Moyes nearly put us into the Championship before he stabilised the situation. His first three seasons were 7th, 17th, 4th and 11th - with an average of 52 points per season (39 points in one season). Fair to say that would have had the lynch mob out if the sense of entitlement we see today was being shown back then.

Martinez is undoing all of davies good work and is taking us one way mate backwards.
If moyes had won 4 home games in 10 months you would be the 1st to be wanting him out.

 

[markmarkmark]

You can't write him off as a "one season wonder" at this stage of his third season.

If we were to win the F.A. Cup this season, he will actually have achieved as much as Howard did in his first three seasons.

More, in fact, as Bobby led us to a European campaign at the end of his first season.

We won't win the FA Cup

 

[davek]

Regarding the Lukaku thing, I find Martinez has the guy alone most of the time, scoring 20 goals this season has been extraordinary to be honest given he has no strike partner alongside him, even as lately as west Brom he had three centre half's marking him, Martinez didn't feel the need to give him support. If Kone came on through the middle I wouldn't be so harsh regarding west brom but he played him on the wing and took Lennon off after that ? Mind blowing stuff from brown shoes but not for the right reasons im afraid.

We play on the break more often than not. He then spearheads a front three - two out wide give him very good service (well Deulofeu does) and he has Barkley hurtling forward just behind to join in with attacks.

Ageing or not, Martinez didn't inherit a bad squad in comparison to what Moyes did - and accomplished something with that squad he hasn't reproduced yet - so it wasn't that bad.

I think this win ratio thing is a load of bull used by people to beat a argument depending which side of the fence @chicoazul put across - its a meaningless stat when Moyes had 11 years and Martinez has had 3. You can't compare an average from 518 games to 129 in my opinion. its not right. If he stays and next season is the same as this the percentage will nose dive and the other side of the fence will use it as an argument, and someone won't like it.

Martinez brought a promise of pushing further, attacking football and everything being rosy. I think its harsh to compare Moyes first 3 seasons to Martinez tbh - which ever side of this cult/plotter crap you stand on, the quality of squad isn't even comparable.

Also - when Moyes took over, we weren't exactly in the top of the table - the expectation was to survive, We are not that club anymore.

If it's a meaningless stat then so is looking at the table and deciding that 11th and 7th are qualitatively different...which suits me, btw, because that is what I think. Others though see a position top half an equate it to progress. Let's just say Moyes gave us one season near the summit and Martinez has so far and call the rest for what it is: mediocrity.

I see and agree that some of the players were getting on abit - no doubt about that. To say Moyes never played football is a little too harsh IMO, a night like Fiorentina and Liverpool 3-0 spring to mind, don't forget we had little talents like Pienaar and Arteta also Mirallas isn't talentless, gravesen could be useful as is baines, coleman and Jagielka to a degree.

Exactly. The fact you can point to a handful of examples underlines that those performances were the exceptions to the rule.

I'd take watching even the poorest of our performances under Martinez over any average display from a Moyes team. As far as I'm concerned there was only one manager attempting to coach football and show it on the pitch, the other was a drill seargent.

 

[Tree13]

Well that's never happened before, all those players wont leave.

Do you think there will or won't be other teams in for Stones and Lukaku this summer?

You're probably right when you say ALL those players won't leave - the problem is, we don't want ANY of them to leave.