Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[chicoazul]

Could we have him in by tomorrow please

Can I ask if you wanted Martinez in the first place sir?

 

[royalblue66]

Can I ask if you wanted Martinez in the first place sir?

Yes mate I did,at the time. I thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, I went to an evening with Martinez at Aintree,and along with everyone there,hung on to every word,and thought he would move us on,but it hasn't happened and I want him out ASAP before it is too late.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Why is everyone calling Martinez a coconut?

Because he's shy of a few home wins ?

 

[chicoazul]

Yes mate I did,at the time. I thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, I went to an evening with Martinez at Aintree,and along with everyone there,hung on to every word,and thought he would move us on,but it hasn't happened and I want him out ASAP before it is too late.

Oh.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/moyes-potential-replacement.53652/page-1453#post-1991762

 

[Pabbers]

7th is not much difference to 10th, everyone saw us a mid-table under Moyes anyway.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Oh.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/moyes-potential-replacement.53652/page-1453#post-1991762

lollollollol

 

[davek]

- Moyes took us from bottom 4 to top four once and top 6 in most seasons Martinez has top 5 once and what looks like two midtables. Moyes has the edge on this.

Moyes did a good job, no question about it. But he was limited...and that was rammed home the moment he left when RM came in and took his team plus a couple of his own signings and squeezed out another 8 points or so that would have been good enough for CL football in most seasons.

- Moyes built from the back of a tough defence with balance and a knack of grinding out results Martinez builds on a attack based philosophy with the inability to win from 2-0 up. More confident in moyes getting a result than Martinez (personal opinion)

You say that you'd be more confident of getting a result with Moyes than Martinez, but the win rate of each at the club has Martinez with more percentage wins.

- Moyes spent 10 years building a fortress at home, as a platform for a decent push to the top 6 Martinez has destroyed it in 18 months. Moyes has the upper hand in this aspect.

Maybe Moyes does. But three points is three points and we are one of the best teams on the road in this league. If the atmosphere were better at Goodison then maybe the home results would fall into line with the away results.

- Moyes had a poor record against the SKY top four yet its forgotten that he beat Man City home and away multiple times Martinez has also beaten SKY top four teams and Manchester United Away, other than that Martinez has a pretty poor record himself. Both poor records away from home.

Nonsense. Martinez has beaten Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal since arriving here, and the big difference between him and Moyes is that when we play those teams (home or away) we take to the field of play on the front foot and expecting we can beat them, unlike Moyes who'd prefer to have been hiding behind the couch when we had to play them. Moyes was an utter coward in the face of the top teams; Martinez wants to go toe to toe and take them down.

- Moyes brought in Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Coleman, Lescott, Arteta, Cahill, Pienaar, Mirallas, Yakubu, Distin, Rooney to name a few who gave us a strong core Martinez has brought in Stones (to a degree) barkley (moyes was there but ross had a broken leg) Lukaku, Delboy, Mccarthy and Lennon. Both good in the transfer market.

I agree. Pretty much at the same level transfer wise.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

You say that you'd be more confident of getting a result with Moyes than Martinez, but the win rate of each at the club has Martinez with more percentage wins.

Don't like this win rate mallarky - Moyes had 11 season at the club and had a win percentage of 42.08%. Martinez has nearly had 3 seasons, one good season and two (so far) pretty rubbish.

At this moment in time i have massive doubts if Martinez's win ratio would be the same as it is now if he was given the same time. Considering Martinez came to the club with a team and squad 100% better then the one Moyes inherited, i personally think the win ratio argument is a massive pile of bollocks.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Moyes did a good job, no question about it. But he was limited...and that was rammed home the moment he left when RM came in and took his team plus a couple of his own signings and squeezed out another 8 points or so that would have been good enough for CL football in most seasons.



You say that you'd be more confident of getting a result with Moyes than Martinez, but the win rate of each at the club has Martinez with more percentage wins.



Maybe Moyes does. But three points is three points and we are one of the best teams on the road in this league. If the atmosphere were better at Goodison then maybe the home results would fall into line with the away results.



Nonsense. Martinez has beaten Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal since arriving here, and the big difference between him and Moyes is that when we play those teams (home or away) we take to the field of play on the front foot and expecting we can beat them, unlike Moyes who'd prefer to have been hiding behind the couch when we had to play them. Moyes was an utter coward in the face of the top teams; Martinez wants to go toe to toe and take them down.



I agree. Pretty much at the same level transfer wise.

Fairly reasonable responses, given the fact bobby has been here about 2 1/2 season compared to moyes 10 or 11 with the current run of results (couple of wins followed by 4 draws and then 2 defeats, followed by 1 win and then another 2 draws type of sequence) I cant see Martinez win ratio getting any better to be honest, I think moyes done well over the decade or so he was here, its sort of what makes Ferguson's record so great, he had a decent win rate over 26 years, not just a one season wonder type of thing. The atmosphere at Goodison as we agreed is quite toxic at times, but that is due to the possession based game we play, its quite slow to be fair and with little to no end product at home, like you say away from home its slightly better.

I understand we were all fed up in the end of the top four lucky to get a point regime, but when you look back at them times, we really were struggling for money compared to the TV money now, that's why I say I thought moyes was one Lukaku away from completing the missing piece of the jigsaw - yakubu's injury was a big blow IMO.

 

[davek]

Don't like this win rate mallarky - Moyes had 11 season at the club and had a win percentage of 42.08%. Martinez has nearly had 3 seasons, one good season and two (so far) pretty rubbish.

At this moment in time i have massive doubts if Martinez's win ratio would be the same as it is now if he was given the same time. Considering Martinez came to the club with a team and squad 100% better then the one Moyes inherited, i personally think the win ratio argument is a massive pile of bollocks.

Let's not overdo the quality of the squad Moyes left. They were ageing and Martinez got a new tune out of them. Moyes nearly put us into the Championship before he stabilised the situation. His first three seasons were 7th, 17th, 4th and 11th - with an average of 52 points per season (39 points in one season). Fair to say that would have had the lynch mob out if the sense of entitlement we see today was being shown back then.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Let's not overdo the quality of the squad Moyes left. They were ageing and Martinez got a new tune out of them. Moyes nearly put us into the Championship before he stabilised the situation. His first three seasons were 7th, 17th, 4th and 11th - with an average of 52 points per season (39 points in one season). Fair to say that would have had the lynch mob out if the sense of entitlement we see today was being shown back then.

Even though Martinez still has Howard, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Mirallas, Pienaar, Barkley (again he weren't playing every game), he has still left some foundations for bobby to work with IMO.

 

[davek]

Fairly reasonable responses, given the fact bobby has been here about 2 1/2 season compared to moyes 10 or 11 with the current run of results (couple of wins followed by 4 draws and then 2 defeats, followed by 1 win and then another 2 draws type of sequence) I cant see Martinez win ratio getting any better to be honest, I think moyes done well over the decade or so he was here, its sort of what makes Ferguson's record so great, he had a decent win rate over 26 years, not just a one season wonder type of thing. The atmosphere at Goodison as we agreed is quite toxic at times, but that is due to the possession based game we play, its quite slow to be fair and with little to no end product at home, like you say away from home its slightly better.

I understand we were all fed up in the end of the top four lucky to get a point regime, but when you look back at them times, we really were struggling for money compared to the TV money now, that's why I say I thought moyes was one Lukaku away from completing the missing piece of the jigsaw - yakubu's injury was a big blow IMO.

Moyes would have had Lukaku out running channels and nullifying him, as he did all the other strikers he bought...and let's not forget that at the time almost £10M for Johnson and over £11M for Yakubu represented big money signings in the PL.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Moyes did a good job, no question about it. But he was limited...and that was rammed home the moment he left when RM came in and took his team plus a couple of his own signings and squeezed out another 8 points or so that would have been good enough for CL football in most seasons.

Yes, but that has proven to be nothing more than a one season wonder at present, as pointed out to you on a painfully vast number of occasions.

What's the point in ramming that up everybody's arses continuously? it doesn't mean jack! It was a one off.....get it? a one off!

It's all you have left...that and some mythical notion that all football served up under Moyes was awful to watch and Roberto is the second coming of total football. None of it is true, you are making it all up....stop listening to the voices in your addled brain!

 

[davek]

Even though Martinez still has Howard, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Mirallas, Pienaar, Barkley (again he weren't playing every game), he has still left some foundations for bobby to work with IMO.

He left them, but also an ageing squad. I'd also say he inherited a team that were frightened to trust themselves to play football. He basically had to adapt what was left to him by Moyes and add some cutting edge in the form of Lukak and Deulofeu.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Moyes would have had Lukaku out running channels and nullifying him, as he did all the other strikers he bought...and let's not forget that at the time almost £10M for Johnson and over £11M for Yakubu represented big money signings in the PL.

Regarding the Lukaku thing, I find Martinez has the guy alone most of the time, scoring 20 goals this season has been extraordinary to be honest given he has no strike partner alongside him, even as lately as west Brom he had three centre half's marking him, Martinez didn't feel the need to give him support. If Kone came on through the middle I wouldn't be so harsh regarding west brom but he played him on the wing and took Lennon off after that ? Mind blowing stuff from brown shoes but not for the right reasons im afraid.