Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[BlueToff]

That is still not a stat. That is a hypothetical assumption.

Without the amount of miss controls he did earlier in the season for example, we may well of kept the ball, knocked it around better and delivered it to Kone or Naismith, who were far more confident as they would be the main strikers, and not understudies to a kid.

No one knows what would of happened, its not a stat, its a guess. The stats are how many we scored with him, how many without, but that doesn't tell us what the stats would be if we didn't have him.

Certain players up front instead of him may of won us games we lost with him in for example.

Stats are things like....

We are 12th
Lukaku scored x amount of goals
Kone scored x amount goals..

from which assumptions can be made, which is what you are calling a stat.

We simply don't know where we would be. Almost certainly much lower than without him though.

Spot on!

I hate the 'without Rom's goals we'd be nowhere' jibe.

So what?

We have Rom's goals, because we spent the money to bring him here.

If Kane hadn't broke through under Poch where would Spurs be? If Chelsea hadn't signed Costa they wouldn't have won the league last year? If you took away Vardy's goals from Leicester etc etc.

 

[Igrok]

There's only a few real plotters in here, IanEfc, Domingo, Macavennie etc. Real men whose agenda will stay the course even through the strongest winds of success. The rest of you are fair weather plotters, piping up after every loss, but back into a cave at the first signs that we might be getting it right.

Sure, there are professional plotters (immortals) and simple team supporters...

 

[willo30]

Spot on!

I hate the 'without Rom's goals we'd be nowhere' jibe.

So what?

We have Rom's goals, because we spent the money to bring him here.

If Kane hadn't broke through under Poch where would Spurs be? If Chelsea hadn't signed Costa they wouldn't have won the league last year? If you took away Vardy's goals from Leicester etc etc.

Also these stats take away the players goals but don't add in his replacements.
They are impossible to predict.

 

[4737carlin]

Saying we would be 16th without Rom is like saying we would be 8th with Joel playing all season not Howard. Chances are both are correct but we don't know for sure since it can't be either proven or disproven.
The only thing we know for certain is what has happened so far this season, where we are in the league, which just isn't good enough. We know ho is responsible for picking the team and sending them out onto the field ready to take on the opponent, the speculation is one thing but the facts speak for themselves.

For the record without Rom I think we would be well and truly stuffed as there would be no one else to step in and score those goals and have those assist's, not in this squads set up.

 

[eddy]

Also these stats take away the players goals but don't add in his replacements.
They are impossible to predict.

So are we saying that we have players, or could have signed a player who can, or would of scored more than the 2nd highest scoring player this season?

Thats a fact by the way we have the second highest scoring player in the prem

 

[D410]

Robert Martinez is a culmination of all that,s wrong with Everton over the last 20 years.
Hired by an owner who was a dreamer.
Roberto managed a club like he dreamed it was Barcelona.
Adored by a fan base who dreamed that we could be better than the sum of our parts.

Well you know what...I,am reality
We watched an owner preside over the most successfully period in the clubs history since 1878.
We watched a manager turn water into wine and managed a team to win cups domestic and European.
We stood amongst thousands and celebrated being a winner.

Moshiri does,nt need to dream up his money the reality is it,s in the bank 24/7, the platform is set for success.
We need a manager who,s reality is already been wining silverware both European and domestic.
We need a fanbase who live in reality and stop being dreamers and want to become winners and be surrounded by Winners.

 

[Efcjake]

I have standing? Is right.

I represent Everton Without Borders who believe that you should be able to enjoy a life of Evertonianism no matter what nationality you are or your ethnicity. The only exception are the wools who rightfully must be steered back to their local clubs and also into the shower.

As long as they're over 30...

 

[Efcjake]

KAPOW

That is based off of the fact that NOBODY comes in and replaces Lukaku, potentially offering up a few goals (maybe even match-winners).

What a silly stat to use. It is absolutely meaningless.

I don't get the point of this line of reasoning. Of course he is an important part of our goal-scoring, he's our lone striker. Doesn't mean somebody else coming in wouldn't do an alright job, score a few goals, maybe win us some points.

 

[willo30]

So are we saying that we have players, or could have signed a player who can, or would of scored more than the 2nd highest scoring player this season?

Thats a fact by the way we have the second highest scoring player in the prem

It's only half the issue.

Lets say his replacement scored half. But was also better at defending corners and stopped a few going in. Held the ball up for a little longer. Totally different picture then.

The original statement said we'd be 8 points worse off without his goals. The stat didn't take into account that we would have replaced them with something.

 

[Efcjake]

So Martinez gets the blame for bringing in a goal scoring machine.

You know all reason's jumped out the window when spurious arguments like that are pursued.

Or is it because up until this week we were too poor to clone him and have 2?

It isn't like we could have gone out and bought ANOTHER 28 million quid striker so that we can avoid accusations of relying on one player...

Deary me.

 

[dead_soft]

Robert Martinez is a culmination of all that,s wrong with Everton over the last 20 years.
Hired by an owner who was a dreamer.
Roberto managed a club like he dreamed it was Barcelona.
Adored by a fan base who dreamed that we could be better than the sum of our parts.

Well you know what...I,am reality
We watched an owner preside over the most successfully period in the clubs history since 1878.
We watched a manager turn water into wine and managed a team to win cups domestic and European.
We stood amongst thousands and celebrated being a winner.

Moshiri does,nt need to dream up his money the reality is it,s in the bank 24/7, the platform is set for success.
We need a manager who,s reality is already been wining silverware both European and domestic.
We need a fanbase who live in reality and stop being dreamers and want to become winners and be surrounded by Winners.

What a complete nonsense. Just because you underline dream and reality doesn't give your argument any validity

 

[Efcjake]

Robert Martinez is a culmination of all that,s wrong with Everton over the last 20 years.
Hired by an owner who was a dreamer.
Roberto managed a club like he dreamed it was Barcelona.
Adored by a fan base who dreamed that we could be better than the sum of our parts.

Well you know what...I,am reality
We watched an owner preside over the most successfully period in the clubs history since 1878.
We watched a manager turn water into wine and managed a team to win cups domestic and European.
We stood amongst thousands and celebrated being a winner.

Moshiri does,nt need to dream up his money the reality is it,s in the bank 24/7, the platform is set for success.
We need a manager who,s reality is already been wining silverware both European and domestic.
We need a fanbase who live in reality and stop being dreamers and want to become winners and be surrounded by Winners.

You won't achieve your goals if you don't aspire to any.

 

[orly]

What a complete nonsense. Just because you underline dream and reality doesn't give your argument any validity

It's John Cribb of BlueKipper fame.

You'll note the overwhelmingly negative feelings from virtually every post

 

[orly]

No source on this dave but seen it posted elsewhere that one of the board wants no delays in moving Bobby out.

A very important week on and off the pitch for everton football club ahead.

WoW how underwhelming is that for a write up given the significance of the changing of the old guard and our ermm alleged bright future.

Over the last 20 years we have seen a lot of busted promises, hand waving and long periods of silence from the top of the table. It,s understandable to me that the fan-base needs the transparency it so badly has been denied to be able to "TRUST" the club again. At the end of the day actions speaks louder than words but we need to hear the words given the usual suspects are still hanging about the club.

Cahill and Ivanovic must be rubbing there hands thinking about corners and set pieces.

Cheer up old chum

That Martinez though, rough month ahead methinks

 

[BlueToff]

Saying we would be 16th without Rom is like saying we would be 8th with Joel playing all season not Howard. Chances are both are correct but we don't know for sure since it can't be either proven or disproven.
The only thing we know for certain is what has happened so far this season, where we are in the league, which just isn't good enough. We know ho is responsible for picking the team and sending them out onto the field ready to take on the opponent, the speculation is one thing but the facts speak for themselves.

For the record without Rom I think we would be well and truly stuffed as there would be no one else to step in and score those goals and have those assist's, not in this squads set up.

Yes but it isn't all down to the manager either. Players have to take some responsibility as well...