Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[TyphooToffee]

All this talk about us winning the FA Cup is a snowstorm. Bob's Wigan beat us 3-0 in the cup, went on to win it against Man City but got relegated. We need a manager who can manage the team against 19 Premier League teams, not an assortment from all the leagues.

 

[bluewally]

So are we saying that we have players, or could have signed a player who can, or would of scored more than the 2nd highest scoring player this season?

Thats a fact by the way we have the second highest scoring player in the prem

But what your "stat" was saying was more like

This is where we would be if Lukaku had gotten injured before the season and we decided to play with 10 men rather than playing Kone or Naismith or anyone else

 

[eddy]

But what your "stat" was saying was more like

This is where we would be if Lukaku had gotten injured before the season and we decided to play with 10 men rather than playing Kone or Naismith or anyone else

I think the stat I used is applicable to a game of football, where each side has 11 players vs 11 players it is self explanatory really.
The stat was not stating we play all season with 10 men as that would be silly, just without Lukaku and someone else in his position.
I think the stat is sensible really considering Luk is the second highest scorer in the prem, and our league position is poor, therefore I think it is sensible to assume we would be lower in the league without his contribution.

 

[davek]

Robert Martinez is a culmination of all that,s wrong with Everton over the last 20 years.
Hired by an owner who was a dreamer.
Roberto managed a club like he dreamed it was Barcelona.
Adored by a fan base who dreamed that we could be better than the sum of our parts.

Well you know what...I,am reality
We watched an owner preside over the most successfully period in the clubs history since 1878.
We watched a manager turn water into wine and managed a team to win cups domestic and European.
We stood amongst thousands and celebrated being a winner.

Moshiri does,nt need to dream up his money the reality is it,s in the bank 24/7, the platform is set for success.
We need a manager who,s reality is already been wining silverware both European and domestic.
We need a fanbase who live in reality and stop being dreamers and want to become winners and be surrounded by Winners.

Mate, you have every right to have a go at Kenwright, and I support that 100%. But to conflate him and Roberto is well wide of the mark.

Kenwright is not a dreamer, he's a cynic. He is and he always was, despite all the chat about riding to the game on his Uncle Albert's handle bars. Everton was primarily an asset, one that's just paid massive dividends. He's supped with the devil to hang on to EFC and now he and his family have been rewarded with a big pay out. He may have wanted success for Everton, but he knew being in charge would prevent us getting it, and he preferred to satisfy his own selfish objectives instead of moving aside before now.

Martinez, on the other hand, is a genuine feller who'd open up a vein if he could get us back to where we belong. His sincerity about our club is never in doubt...and I dont think even his fiercest critics would deny that. He's added to Everton, whereas Kenwright merely subtracted. And there's nothing dreamlike about how this team can play football, it's there and it's tangible. The players we have because of his purchases and coaching aren't a fantasy either - they've added massive value to the club and we have quality in depth like we've never had before now.

 

[BlueToff]

I think the stat I used is applicable to a game of football, where each side has 11 players vs 11 players it is self explanatory really.
The stat was not stating we play all season with 10 men as that would be silly, just without Lukaku and someone else in his position.
I think the stat is sensible really considering Luk is the second highest scorer in the prem, and our league position is poor, therefore I think it is sensible to assume we would be lower in the league without his contribution.

But the point is mate is it is irrelevant.

Pundits (usually on TalkSPORT) always bring up 'well look where (insert team name) would be without (insert name of striker/keeper etc.). The point is it's daft, as the players do play and are available.

It almost gets used as a stick to beat RM with at times ; 'without Lukaku we'd be crap'

Irrelevant. He signed Lukaku we've got Lukaku and Lukaku is fit and scores.

If Poch hadn't brought Kane in Spurs would be nowhere near the top four, never mind top two. Same with Vardy and Mahrez at Leicester.

 

[bluewally]

I think the stat I used is applicable to a game of football, where each side has 11 players vs 11 players it is self explanatory really.
The stat was not stating we play all season with 10 men as that would be silly, just without Lukaku and someone else in his position.
I think the stat is sensible really considering Luk is the second highest scorer in the prem, and our league position is poor, therefore I think it is sensible to assume we would be lower in the league without his contribution.

But you assume that the "someone else in his position" wouldnt score or contribute in any way so you might as well say 10 men.

 

[BlueToff]

Mate, you have every right to have a go at Kenwright, and I support that 100%. But to conflate him and Roberto is well wide of the mark.

Kenwright is not a dreamer, he's a cynic. He is and he always was, despite all the chat about riding to the game on his Uncle Albert's handle bars. Everton was primarily an asset, one that's just paid massive dividends. He's supped with the devil to hang on to EFC and now he and his family have been rewarded with a big pay out. He may have wanted success for Everton, but he knew being in charge would prevent us getting it, and he preferred to satisfy his own selfish objectives instead of moving aside before now.

Martinez, on the other hand, is a genuine feller who'd open up a vein if he could get us back to where we belong. His sincerity about our club is never in doubt...and I dont think even his fiercest critics would deny that. He's added to Everton, whereas Kenwright merely subtracted. And there's nothing dreamlike about how this team can play football, it's there and it's tangible. The players we have because of his purchases and coaching aren't a fantasy either - they've added massive value to the club and we have quality in depth like we've never had before now.

Without getting into the Kenwright debate.

The Martinez thing Dave, and you know I have supported him firmly and still do, can also be balanced out by the lack of results (in the league) and especially at home.

Now I'm not saying, as some do, that RM is entirely responsible. There's other factors.

But when he does truly baffling things that no manager who has nine years of experience and seven years in the premier league should be doing, I can understand the frustration and tbh it changed my view a bit as well to 'he's the right man' to 'I still want him in, but accept that the results need to improve for his position to be tangible'.

 

[orly]

Mate, you have every right to have a go at Kenwright, and I support that 100%. But to conflate him and Roberto is well wide of the mark.

Kenwright is not a dreamer, he's a cynic. He is and he always was, despite all the chat about riding to the game on his Uncle Albert's handle bars. Everton was primarily an asset, one that's just paid massive dividends. He's supped with the devil to hang on to EFC and now he and his family have been rewarded with a big pay out. He may have wanted success for Everton, but he knew being in charge would prevent us getting it, and he preferred to satisfy his own selfish objectives instead of moving aside before now.

Martinez, on the other hand, is a genuine feller who'd open up a vein if he could get us back to where we belong. His sincerity about our club is never in doubt...and I dont think even his fiercest critics would deny that. He's added to Everton, whereas Kenwright merely subtracted. And there's nothing dreamlike about how this team can play football, it's there and it's tangible. The players we have because of his purchases and coaching aren't a fantasy either - they've added massive value to the club and we have quality in depth like we've never had before now.

Uncle Cyril.

I know it feels like Only Fools and Horses right now...

 

[eddy]

But the point is mate is it is irrelevant.

Pundits (usually on TalkSPORT) always bring up 'well look where (insert team name) would be without (insert name of striker/keeper etc.). The point is it's daft, as the players do play and are available.

It almost gets used as a stick to beat RM with at times ; 'without Lukaku we'd be crap'

Irrelevant. He signed Lukaku we've got Lukaku and Lukaku is fit and scores.

If Poch hadn't brought Kane in Spurs would be nowhere near the top four, never mind top two. Same with Vardy and Mahrez at Leicester.

I agree, but have you had a look where Spurs and Leicester are in the league? and then looked at us ?

 

[Goat]

Mate, you have every right to have a go at Kenwright, and I support that 100%. But to conflate him and Roberto is well wide of the mark.

Kenwright is not a dreamer, he's a cynic. He is and he always was, despite all the chat about riding to the game on his Uncle Albert's handle bars. Everton was primarily an asset, one that's just paid massive dividends. He's supped with the devil to hang on to EFC and now he and his family have been rewarded with a big pay out. He may have wanted success for Everton, but he knew being in charge would prevent us getting it, and he preferred to satisfy his own selfish objectives instead of moving aside before now.

Martinez, on the other hand, is a genuine feller who'd open up a vein if he could get us back to where we belong. His sincerity about our club is never in doubt...and I dont think even his fiercest critics would deny that. He's added to Everton, whereas Kenwright merely subtracted. And there's nothing dreamlike about how this team can play football, it's there and it's tangible. The players we have because of his purchases and coaching aren't a fantasy either - they've added massive value to the club and we have quality in depth like we've never had before now.

Utter LOL.

 

[BlueToff]

I agree, but have you had a look where Spurs and Leicester are in the league?

Yes...

Because they have Kane and Vardy/Mahrez...

 

[eddy]

But you assume that the "someone else in his position" wouldnt score or contribute in any way so you might as well say 10 men.

I am assuming they would not have scored as many as the prems 2nd highest scorer ... yes !

 

[Goat]

The only time Martinez opens up a vein is when he selects Kone to play.

 

[eddy]

Yes...

Because they have Kane and Vardy/Mahrez...

ok and we are 12th because we have Lukaku ...... without him we would be 16th give or take a couple of places due to a goalfest from Hibbert Naismith Osman

 

[DualityNSNO]

Yes...

Because they have Kane and Vardy/Mahrez...

And we'd be massively worse off if we didn't have Lukaku, who has won us points on his own this season.

No Lukaku would mean some of our (already too few) wins would be draws or losses, and we'd be scrapping relegation.

But this is why I dislike "what if" scenarios, as "IF X and IF Y was so and so" isn't really a valid argument in real life. Truth is, we have Lukaku who's won us points, other teams have key players themselves (Vardy/Mahrez, Kane) who have done the same, and that's usually how it works - there's always a standout player.