Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[davek]

Without getting into the Kenwright debate.

The Martinez thing Dave, and you know I have supported him firmly and still do, can also be balanced out by the lack of results (in the league) and especially at home.

Now I'm not saying, as some do, that RM is entirely responsible. There's other factors.

But when he does truly baffling things that no manager who has nine years of experience and seven years in the premier league should be doing, I can understand the frustration and tbh it changed my view a bit as well to 'he's the right man' to 'I still want him in, but accept that the results need to improve for his position to be tangible'.

This goes back at root to an issue some of us have highlighted constantly over the years: we lack leadership, and we especially lack leadership in the defensive unit. IMO, if Martinez has made one conspicuous mistake in terms of defence over the past two seasons it's not addressing the issue of leadership on the pitch. The collapses that infuriate everyone are a result of poor organisation and communication. Jagielka is in my opinion far and away the biggest waste of space as a team captain we've had. He offers nothing to his team mates. The backline needs a shake up too, I would say. Coleman is a shadow of the player he was. Maybe Martinez sees this and that's why Byram was bid for? GK needs addressing too. We cant just rely on a half decent GK like Robles, we need a top GK who can also command the whole of the 18 yard box.

 

[BlueToff]

And we'd be massively worse off if we didn't have Lukaku, who has won us points on his own this season.

No Lukaku would mean some of our (already too few) wins would be draws or losses, and we'd be scrapping relegation.

But this is why I dislike "what if" scenarios, as "IF X and IF Y was so and so" isn't really a valid argument in real life. Truth is, we have Lukaku who's won us points, other teams have key players themselves (Vardy/Mahrez, Kane) who have done the same, and that's usually how it works - there's always a standout player.

Exactly. We do have Lukaku... they do have Kane and Vardy etc.

It's not a stat it's just hypothetical.

Had the linesman done his job vs Chelsea we'd be above them in the table, for example...

 

[davek]

The only time Martinez opens up a vein is when he selects Kone to play.

You cant seriously be doubting Martinez's passion for Everton?

 

[DualityNSNO]

You cant seriously be doubting Martinez's passion for Everton?

Personally I am not.

Passion =/= ability, however.

 

[FisherEFC]

Newcastle will probably finish above us as well next season should they get Benitez in and we keep the current clown.

 

[eddy]

And we'd be massively worse off if we didn't have Lukaku, who has won us points on his own this season.

No Lukaku would mean some of our (already too few) wins would be draws or losses, and we'd be scrapping relegation.

But this is why I dislike "what if" scenarios, as "IF X and IF Y was so and so" isn't really a valid argument in real life. Truth is, we have Lukaku who's won us points, other teams have key players themselves (Vardy/Mahrez, Kane) who have done the same, and that's usually how it works - there's always a standout player.

I agree with the above, Lukaku is our standout player, we would without doubt be battling relegation without him.
The if, buts, and maybe`s are that we could have a player in his position that does better, I think this is not true. I do not think we possess a better striker or could of signed a better striker.
The league table does not lie .......

 

[davek]

By half seven on Saturday night there's going to be some piping down in here.

 

[bluewally]

I am assuming they would not have scored as many as the prems 2nd highest scorer ... yes !

I agree but they could score some or make a key pass or assist leading to a goal.

You can't just take lukakus goals out, amend the results accordingly and call it a stat.

 

[BlueToff]

This goes back at root to an issue some of us have highlighted constantly over the years: we lack leadership, and we especially lack leadership in the defensive unit. IMO, if Martinez has made one conspicuous mistake in terms of defence over the past two seasons it's not addressing the issue of leadership on the pitch. The collapses that infuriate everyone are a result of poor organisation and communication. Jagielka is in my opinion far and away the biggest waste of space as a team captain we've had. He offers nothing to his team mates. The backline needs a shake up too, I would say. Coleman is a shadow of the player he was. Maybe Martinez sees this and that's why Byram was bid for? GK needs addressing too. We cant just rely on a half decent GK like Robles, we need a top GK who can also command the whole of the 18 yard box.

That's all true I think mate but RM made a huge mistake on Saturday with that sub. No excuses for it it was amateur at best after what had been a superb all-round performance from the players and manager.

That also doesn't excuse the capitulation from the players, which I have referenced as well. However, for me it's the first time I've seen RM really panic. He didn't have a clue how to sort the side once W.Ham scored and that's a massive fault.

He panicked and then his only answer was, in the 88th minute, to bring on Barry when the damage was already done. Low and behold West Ham attack straight after that sub and Payet gets away from... you guessed it, Barry, to score the winner.

We saw the best and worst of Martinez on Saturday and I can't see how anyone can deny it. Even I, who has supported him firmly and fully, was extremely, was extremely disappointed and his comments after the game such as 'we don't have a problem defending crosses' etc have not stemmed any concerns as it is blatantly not true.

This may stem back to a lack of leadership in the side and I agree that is definitely an issue as well, but RM hasn't helped himself this week. I don't expect him to come out and say 'yes I got it totally wrong' - but his constant waffle and jargon are doing nobody any favours unfortunately.

 

[bluewally]

I agree with the above, Lukaku is our standout player, we would without doubt be battling relegation without him.
The if, buts, and maybe`s are that we could have a player in his position that does better, I think this is not true. I do not think we possess a better striker or could of signed a better striker.
The league table does not lie .......

No the ifs buts and maybes are that we would have a player in his position who would do something.

You simply removed Lukakus goals and replaced them with nothing

 

[meagher94]

Newcastle are going to have a better manager than us ffs.

Bottoms up

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

By half seven on Saturday night there's going to be some piping down in here.

One swallow doesn't make a summer....

A win on Saturday is what we all want, and another Wembley SF would be great, but it wouldn't alter the validity of anything said by Blues concerned about Martinez and our league position in here.

 

[eddy]

I agree but they could score some or make a key pass or assist leading to a goal.

You can't just take lukakus goals out, amend the results accordingly and call it a stat.

Why not ? If you look at his tally, then remove him and said tally, replace him with an inferior player, the likes of `Sturridge` or `Coutinio` crap like that, and the stats are we would be lower in the league. His goals as second highest scorer would not of been equalled in my opinion
and therefore we would be sitting lower in the league than we are now

Just my opinion and I hope we win Sat, nothing wrong with healthy debate amongst blues !

 

[TheFinnFan]

Newcastle are going to have a better manager than us ffs.

Bottoms up

In championship...

 

[ilikecheese]

Newcastle are going to have a better manager than us ffs.

Bottoms up

Who are they getting?

Some on here have shouted for McClaren FFS.