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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Zatara said:
Alot of the arguments against Martinez dont make any sense at all....

1-- 1st season was all Moyes yet the style of play totally changed. So next season if we get a new manager we should praise Martinez for his work over the past 3 years then??

2-- Expectations to be top 6 with a budget of 9th and alot of older players masking the budget of players which would likely be lower than 11th if they were removed (which will happen this summer)

3-- If a manager comes in and spends £100mil then does this now mean he will be sacked if we dont hit champions league next season ?

4-- The home form is terrible. Since when does this matter if the away form is fine and pretty much mirrors whe budget of the squad in terms of league position?

5-- Baines is one of us. No he is a professional footballer whose been average to poor for 2 seasons and lost his place and went crying off to the papers.


@davek gets a lot of flak but the fact is that in terms of budgets he's dead on.

Hes also been right about Baines and Jagielka as well as needing more defensive full backs.

However it does seem that after the derby hes finished.

i think he would have brought in some good players this summer if given big funds and we could see what his sysstem looks like when he has suitable players to fit into it.
Click to expand...
We've played rubbish for two seasons and the man comes out numerous times a week telling us how phenomenal we are. Nothing else matters. He's out.
 
There's been so many lost opportunities with Everton over the years I've forgotten more than I can remember.

It looks like real change has finally come though. I think we have a lot to look forward to. Personally I can't wait for the day we sack a manager for failure to be in the top 4. It shows we're back were we belong, challenging for titles. Which is what I was raised on. And I'm no twenty year old.

Demanding? Absolutely and I make no apologies for it. It's in the motto.
 

Sentinel said:
There's been so many lost opportunities with Everton over the years I've forgotten more than I can remember.

It looks like real change has finally come though. I think we have a lot to look forward to. Personally I can't wait for the day we sack a manager for failure to be in the top 4. It shows we're back were we belong, challenging for titles. Which is what I was raised on. And I'm no twenty year old.

Demanding? Absolutely and I make no apologies for it. It's in the motto.
Click to expand...
My numero uno sporting affection resides with the NZ All Blacks...sporting-wise and 'pride-wise', they represent me (My mum and dad emigrated to Aotearoa when I was 4).

Everton enjoys unchallenged second hierarchy in my sporting affections....(thanks Dad...RIP)

One team nearly always does not disappoint...the other disappoints usually always


NSNO
 
Zatara said:
Alot of the arguments against Martinez dont make any sense at all....

1-- 1st season was all Moyes yet the style of play totally changed. So next season if we get a new manager we should praise Martinez for his work over the past 3 years then??

2-- Expectations to be top 6 with a budget of 9th and alot of older players masking the budget of players which would likely be lower than 11th if they were removed (which will happen this summer)

3-- If a manager comes in and spends £100mil then does this now mean he will be sacked if we dont hit champions league next season ?

4-- The home form is terrible. Since when does this matter if the away form is fine and pretty much mirrors whe budget of the squad in terms of league position?

5-- Baines is one of us. No he is a professional footballer whose been average to poor for 2 seasons and lost his place and went crying off to the papers.


@davek gets a lot of flak but the fact is that in terms of budgets he's dead on.

Hes also been right about Baines and Jagielka as well as needing more defensive full backs.

However it does seem that after the derby hes finished.

i think he would have brought in some good players this summer if given big funds and we could see what his sysstem looks like when he has suitable players to fit into it.
Click to expand...
1 Moyes team was built of defensive solidity. Martinez kept that unit together, but the discipline that remained from Moyes' training is gone. We have internationals at every position in defense and still make consistently basic mistakes in judgement, timing, positioning and can't win an aerial battle to save our lives. If the next guy comes in and plays defensively, it is so obviously not thanks to 2-3 years of defensive garbage.

2 Expectations that RM espouses for himself and his team at every presser. He has also managed to take a team full of talent, youth and experience and turn them into a team of average, ill-fit drones who can't turn up for a derby or win big games.

3 No. Martinez was given 2 years to turn around the losing trend. He instead blamed it all on the WC and losing a lead twice early in the season for an entire season last year. This year he'said blamed the refs, bad luck, the home crowd, bad luck and more bad luck. Nothing about giving him the sack after 3 years where 2 were rubbish says that the next guy will get the axe after 1. BTW, I think you made this argument up by your own slippery slope ideas about what others say.

4 it matters because away form wasn't as great as you want us to believe, it is only 6th best. Meanwhile our home form would see us relegated. it also seems important that your fans aren't seeing relegation calibre results. our home form was the worst in club history.

5 I don't care if he is "one of us." There is no reason that RM should have forced him to offer a public apology. whether or not you agree, it doesn't seem that too many people see this alone as the reason to sack him, but it definitely is another nail in the coffin.

The problem with the "IN" camp is that there are only two arguments for Martinez based on anything other than wishful thinking. 1-he got 72 points. 2- budget. Both of which are stupid arguments. Look at the trend in results, not an outlier. It like celebrating winning $5 on slots before losing 200 and continuing to play based on the initial win. And none of us know a darn thing about the budget since the takeover, so please stop. It might be expensive to sack him, that doesn't cost more than the drop.

at this point, the only people left in the IN camp are not going to change their minds. they are attached to winning the argument and being right all along in case he does pull through. Instead of basing their opinions on any of the evidence in front of them they hope and pray RM comes good so they can enter vaulting nirvana.
 
Zatara said:
Alot of the arguments against Martinez dont make any sense at all....

1-- 1st season was all Moyes yet the style of play totally changed. So next season if we get a new manager we should praise Martinez for his work over the past 3 years then??

2-- Expectations to be top 6 with a budget of 9th and alot of older players masking the budget of players which would likely be lower than 11th if they were removed (which will happen this summer)

3-- If a manager comes in and spends £100mil then does this now mean he will be sacked if we dont hit champions league next season ?

4-- The home form is terrible. Since when does this matter if the away form is fine and pretty much mirrors whe budget of the squad in terms of league position?

5-- Baines is one of us. No he is a professional footballer whose been average to poor for 2 seasons and lost his place and went crying off to the papers.


@davek gets a lot of flak but the fact is that in terms of budgets he's dead on.

Hes also been right about Baines and Jagielka as well as needing more defensive full backs.

However it does seem that after the derby hes finished.

i think he would have brought in some good players this summer if given big funds and we could see what his sysstem looks like when he has suitable players to fit into it.
Click to expand...

1. The team consisted of the backbone of Moyes's team in the 1st term. They are well drilled as a defensive unit. Basically what we said is Martinez trained out the defensive side of Moyes's team and results and performances relect this harsh reality.

2. This expectation exists due to Moyes. In the last decade, we expect to finish in a league position where we are able to get Europa League football. Moyes's transfer budget and wages budget are a lot less than the current manager processes with.

3. It depends how much he spends really. I expect top 6.

4. The fact is there is no away form table. 44 points gets you 11th right now. 8 home defeats in one season is horrendous.

5. We don't see it that away. We think Martinez has lost the dressing room.
 
Sentinel said:
There's been so many lost opportunities with Everton over the years I've forgotten more than I can remember.

It looks like real change has finally come though. I think we have a lot to look forward to. Personally I can't wait for the day we sack a manager for failure to be in the top 4. It shows we're back were we belong, challenging for titles. Which is what I was raised on. And I'm no twenty year old.

Demanding? Absolutely and I make no apologies for it. It's in the motto.
Click to expand...

Good post mate!
 

deipnosophist said:
My numero uno sporting affection resides with the NZ All Blacks...sporting-wise and 'pride-wise', they represent me (My mum and dad emigrated to Aotearoa when I was 4).

Everton enjoys unchallenged second hierarchy in my sporting affections....(thanks Dad...RIP)

One team nearly always does not disappoint...the other disappoints usually always


NSNO
Click to expand...
Don't the all blacks just nick all the best Polynesian players?
 
deipnosophist said:
My numero uno sporting affection resides with the NZ All Blacks
Click to expand...

I can't remember a time in my life when they weren't formidable and it's a testament to the country that they have maintained that position. I would suppose systematic failure wouldn't be an option in your eyes and quite right too.

Everton is my first and only allegiance and they haven't always disappointed. I still have the pride in my team that you obviously have for the all-Blacks, imagine the hurt then if you had witnessed the decline from, if you excuse my poor analogy, warriors we were once, to a similar fate befalling the mighty all Blacks. It's probably unimaginable because a winning mentality is riven within your DNA. Unfortunately somewhere along the way Everton lost theirs.

The derby capitulation and semi-final were a black week in our clubs history. I see it as a chance for a turning point though. Hopefully all of us and both of our Dads, Everton fathers everywhere, can see their sons supporting a successful, winning team again.
 

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