Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[BlueToff]

@MoutsGoat - Vitor's Fener on BT now la

 

[nsno-chris]

Font?

On my mobile on my way home from work

 

[Goat]

"He needs to win the cup" i'm reading,
Some people need their heads shaken, we haven't won a friggin trophy for over 20 years but Bobby "needs to win the cup" unblievable.

He needs to win the cup to mask his appalling league placing.

If he wins nothing AND finishes in the bottom half, get him a fork, dont bother turning him over cos hes DONE.

 

[Goat]

@MoutsGoat - Vitor's Fener on BT now la

Totally over him mate, I dont like his club hopping.

 

[Tubey]

Oh, and here is some optimism.

We beat the worst Chelsea side in a very long time at Goodison and here is the pot;

Reading, Crystal Palace, Arsenal, Man Utd, Watford, West Ham

Unless we met Arsenal on their day, we should win it.

We're better than the rest.

We're better than Arsenal too over 70 minutes of most games.

Unfortunately there's another 20 minutes to play after that!

On paper, we should be one of the favourites for the cup as you say and looking at Chelsea as the "Wigan" game under Moyes and relishing a home tie, and we should be around 4th/5th in the league.

In reality, we're bottom half, and we'd rather this game was at Stamford Bridge. Says it all.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I'd say it was more meek surrender than abject defeat in most of the big games...but that's just me.

Meek surrender in the FA cup double header v Liverpool? When we half a team v O'Neill's Villa and caned them at home, when we were 1 down to Stoke and beat them in the second half? In the pen shoot out against United? The must win United and Newcastle games in the 04/05 CL run in with Liverpool breathing down our necks and a pretty poor squad? Meek surrender when we topped our UEFA cup group in 07/08, spanked Brann then battered Fiorentina at home? Meek surrender in any of those games v top City sides? Meek surrender when we went to Villareal against a side far far superior to us and should have taken them to extra time?

The only meek surrenders in big games under Moyes that I count as 'bottling' was the Wigan QF and potentially the Liverpool cup semi (although they did have Suarez Gerrard Reina Carragher Carrol and we had Osman one one wing and Gueye on the other). The rest of the time we were legitimately beaten by better sides in big moments. There's a huge difference. I'd argue that this current side chokes far regularly than Moyes' sides with complete surrenders occurring on a regular basis at home and probably two of the worst premier league Derby performances I've ever seen.

 

[ilikecheese]

So many in here sound just like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

So which side of the debate do you stand currently?

Feb 2015, I said this;

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/martinez-the-reality.73441/

2013/14.

Instant feel good factor back at Goodison. 'Boss' moments everywhere. Record Premier League points tally. For the first time in a long time, genuine hope and ambition that we had a manager who could bring some good times to the club - a trophy.

2014/15.

Domestically, a complete write off. Where has it all gone wrong?

Our pre-season effort was pathetic.
Second season syndrome?
Players unable to cope with the Europa League?
Players who played for a transfer/deal last season losing that motivation this season?
No wingers, not adequately replacing Pienaar/Deulofeu?,
Being found out?
Goodison pitch going to the dogs...

The excuses are far and wide.

We've been piss poor this season. Martinez has infuriated even the most patient of fans. Considering the squad, it's a fair argument to suggest we've been worse than any season under Moyes. In fact, points wise, we're comparable to Walter Smith...

BUT, the reality is... we won't get relegated, and a 5 year deal in June tells you he isn't going anywhere just yet.

He'll have another summer. He deserves it based on his first season.

He'll start a new season, having learnt more about Everton this season than ever before. He'll start that season (provided we don't win the Europa...) without any European commitments.

Review the manager in December...

Until then, do we really need to entertain the tedious, premature sacking the manager debate?...

I reviewed the manager in December, it wasn't great. Was it?

I then said, top 8 as a minimum which is a low benchmark in my opinion.

Now that Moshiri is here, and given we're 12th - I'd say change it in the summer.

Without knowing anything of Moshiri's character, I think he'll give Martinez a season. I think Kenwright will be Martinez' saving.

 

[mutley]

He needs to win the cup to mask his appalling league placing.

If he wins nothing AND finishes in the bottom half, get him a fork, dont bother turning him over cos hes DONE.

If we were a regular top 4 finisher you might be right but guess what mate ? we aint,
6th 7th 8th 9th and 10th don't get you much more than 11th.

 

[Toast]

Without knowing anything of Moshiri's character, I think he'll give Martinez a season. I think Kenwright will be Martinez' saving.

The last sentence is bang on.

BK won't be telling moshiri to sack Roberto.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Oh, and here is some optimism.

We beat the worst Chelsea side in a very long time at Goodison and here is the pot;

Reading, Crystal Palace, Arsenal, Man Utd, Watford, West Ham

Unless we met Arsenal on their day, we should win it.

We're better than the rest.

Can't speak for Reading, but United caned us at Goodison, we couldn't beat Palace, or Watford, or West Ham (twice). Let's hope it's an away tie (at Reading).

 

[Goat]

Feb 2015, I said this;

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/martinez-the-reality.73441/



I reviewed the manager in December, it wasn't great. Was it?

I then said, top 8 as a minimum which is a low benchmark in my opinion.

Now that Moshiri is here, and given we're 12th - I'd say change it in the summer.

Without knowing anything of Moshiri's character, I think he'll give Martinez a season. I think Kenwright will be Martinez' saving.

So your pretty much where I am, apart from the fact that im not quite willing to say 100% sack him in the Summer, im probably around 45% sack 55% keep, as said, im on a game to game basis, that shifts by 5% every game, when he reaches 60%, the trigger gets pulled.

Im not convinced that Bill will WANT to keep him past the summer if things dont improve drastically either, hes cost the club a VAST sum of money with these bottom half finishes, roughly, comparing 6th to 11th for 2 season, its not shy of 50m, coupled with the "vast" transfer kitty he was given, just saying.

 

[ilikecheese]

Meek surrender in the FA cup double header v Liverpool? When we half a team v O'Neill's Villa and caned them at home, when we were 1 down to Stoke and beat them in the second half? In the pen shoot out against United? The must win United and Newcastle games in the 04/05 CL run in with Liverpool breathing down our necks and a pretty poor squad? Meek surrender when we topped our UEFA cup group in 07/08, spanked Brann then battered Fiorentina at home? Meek surrender in any of those games v top City sides? Meek surrender when we went to Villareal against a side far far superior to us and should have taken them to extra time?

The only meek surrenders in big games under Moyes that I count as 'bottling' was the Wigan QF and potentially the Liverpool cup semi (although they did have Suarez Gerrard Reina Carragher Carrol and we had Osman one one wing and Gueye on the other). The rest of the time we were legitimately beaten by better sides in big moments. There's a huge difference. I'd argue that this current side chokes far regularly than Moyes' sides with complete surrenders occurring on a regular basis at home and probably two of the worst premier league Derby performances I've ever seen.

Yes...meek surrender...knife to a gun fight...far too often. Love how it winds you up so much anytime criticism over Moyes comes up. 11 years...never won anything...in reality could have stayed here 11 more and would still be empty handed. He is not built to win...only be safe.

SMFH @ how you pile on Martinez after 3 years when in 11 years Moyes did F all.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Can't speak for Reading, but United caned us at Goodison, we couldn't beat Palace, or Watford, or West Ham (twice). Let's hope it's an away tie (at Reading).

I appreciate that mate, results aside, I think our team is better...

Martinez' poor results against them all is why I, and many more have a problem with him.

 

[Goat]

If we were a regular top 4 finisher you might be right but guess what mate ? we aint,
6th 7th 8th 9th and 10th don't get you much more than 11th.

6th gets you Europa and in the current climate, it also gets you around an extra 30m in prize money compared to 11th, I guess we have different values.