Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[eddy]

its a shame really as I like Martinez, he seems like a nice bloke. Last year I just thought that he cant see the problems, or is to stuborn to do anything about it. I even felt guilty being critical of him and understand its just not the Everton way, its not us to moan. Dave made some very good points last year and I hoped things would change but they have not.
I know a few Wigan fans and they told me `Martinez just cannot defend`. I also think the players are tired with this `broken philosophy`

I would like a win on Sat no matter how we get it, I keep thinking we will go 1 up in ten minutes and park the bus for the rest of the game, just to show us he can win ugly. I think he has ten games to put a winning streak together, if not I think he will be moved on in the summer.

 

[AJC5]

We dont need a new defensive coach. 15 goals conceded in all competitions since the new year tells you we dont. We DO need a captain and leader on the pitch.

Who was the captain and leader during Moyes reign and in Bobby's first season? You completely over estimate the importance of a captain. All they do is toss the coin.

 

[bluewally]

That's assuming Lukaku's only contribution is assists and goals. The next striker on the books is Kone. A team with him as the starting striker gets relegated even if he had Barca's midfield behind him and the 90s Arsenal defence. I'm sure Villa thought Benteke was replaceable.

I was just posting a ridiculous immeasurable theory to combat a ridiculous immeasurable theory being presented as a fact or stat

 

[davek]

Y'know what Dave...I really like reading your posts, slanted as they often are, you're savvy, funny sometimes even and, either way, you stir up reaction, which is always a good thing on a forum as it ensures it doesn't become all magnolia...

But mate....really, isn't enough enough on this now? Defend him by all means but stop with the application for sainthood for the man, you know your stuff, evidently, but you're now starting to come across like a one-direction-knicker-wetter...you can't use the '72' as a standard whilst discounting everything else...

it's all there mate, all the figures, whatever way you look at it the man's average, he under-achieves, he always has, his locker - for the most - is empty.

You're running out of things to blame man...hoofball/moyes/howard/defenders with balls/a non-shouty captain.... the blame lies on the touchline with it's finger occasionally in the air.

Again, may I remind you he took a team down and didn't feel he was the man to bring them back up...

Yet he's good enough for us is he?

We're not a big club mate, despite what some of us think, we're just not.....but we're bigger than him and we deserve better than he's able to offer.

As said, I love reading you stuff mate, it used to be admirable, now I simply can't believe you have conviction in a majority of what you write.

^^^^ = "stop contradicting us...join the lynch mob...just pick up a pitchfork and join in the fun".

No thanks. Loyalty is not a bad trait in my world...it may be in yours, but not in mine.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

^^^^ = "stop contradicting us...join the lynch mob...just pick up a pitchfork and join in the fun".

No thanks. Loyalty is not a bad trait in my world...it may be in yours, but not in mine.

Loyalty's ace mate, it really is, it's a highly commendable thing...

Blind loyalty however, well, that's just weird mate.

 

[Lanolin]

I think - as well as that being a valid point and it's ridiculous that the likes of Barry, Jagielka, Baines (When he plays) etc. haven't stepped up - the main issue is the manner we concede goals.

It always seems to be in the same way - i.e. a long punt up field or crosses into the area.

It seems to me to stem from the fact that we rarely defend as a unit. When we do defend as a unit then we look a lot more solid.

But a lot of the time RM's style/concept of defending seems to be a more 'individual' based one. And that's when the gaps open up when teams manage to hit us.

Of those 15 goals conceded this calendar year, there's only four I can think of that weren't scored from a cross or long ball...

Obviously two of those (1 v Chelsea, 1 v City lg cup) shouldn't have counted, but still, that's a worry... especially when you contrast that with the variety of attacks we have to utilise (to good effect) to score goals...

This is exactly it for me, the whole defensive set up is wrong, and there appears to be no defensive drilling to ensure everybody knows what their job is and where they're supposed to be.

Martinez appears to favour the South American style defender who is comfortable being left one on one, rather than traditional British style defenders who are all about organisation and defending as a unit. This is why it makes me laugh when people say we need someone like Shawcross in defence. While he's a decent enough centre half in his own right, he'd be an absolute calamity in this system, with teams just isolating him and rinsing him time and again.

As an aside, is Lawrence really the defensive coach? As far as I was aware he's just a coach who happened to be a defender in his playing career, I've never seen anything saying he was specifically tasked with the defensive work with the first team?

 

[davek]

I don't buy all this Moyes defence in his first season. The reason it was better for me was because Stubbs was there.
If we could get someone like Stubbs or at least someone more qualified than this Lawrence bloke then for me we would see a marked improvement.
I know we've seen an improvement recently but the last game shows we are still prone to results like before our recent run. We need to get out of the mentality were if we concede one we know another is coming. Apart from City in the cup and Villa we haven't won a game were the opposition has scored since Sunderland at the beginning of November. At the moment we are having to keep a clean sheet to win. Experienced ex pro who's been there and done it can only help.

To me it's more simple than personnel incomings and outgoings on the coaching staff. On the road only Spurs have conceded less goals than us. This is a tale of two seasons we have here at Everton.

Goodison is not a fortress and that's because we lack a cool head organiser and leader to shore up this defence when under pressure.

We have the easiest problem in the world to solve: make home form as good as away form.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Who was the captain and leader during Moyes reign and in Bobby's first season? You completely over estimate the importance of a captain. All they do is toss the coin.

No mate, I think you are underestimating a Captains role. Having leaders and organisers on the field can make a real difference.

A snippet from Scholes last night - ""When we were coming through as players we had great examples in (Bryan) Robson, (Roy) Keane, (Paul) Ince and (Steve) Bruce setting standards, and when we came through we had to live up the standards and hopefully take the club on."

So can having a decent manager like.

 

[orchard]

Unlike the loyalty he showed wigan upon getting them relegated?

^^^^ = "stop contradicting us...join the lynch mob...just pick up a pitchfork and join in the fun".

No thanks. Loyalty is not a bad trait in my world...it may be in yours, but not in mine.

 

[davek]

Loyalty's ace mate, it really is, it's a highly commendable thing...

Blind loyalty however, well, that's just weird mate.

Blind loyalty - record points total first season, last English club in Europe last season, on the cusp of nailing two domestic cup SF spots this season....no trophies, but not shabby either...and certainly not deserving of the hysteria this manager has to put up with from an army of bedwetters.

 

[davek]

We do, and we have done since last season

13 goals away from home this season says otherwise. Only Spurs on 12 have conceded less away.

Our problem is that we have no leaders in the team who can galvanise these players to play solidly in front of sceptical home supporters. Those who travel away to watch Everton will know the chalk and cheese defending performances well enough. I know you do go away so I dont need to tell you.

 

[MikeH72]

Blind loyalty - record points total first season, last English club in Europe last season, on the cusp of nailing two domestic cup SF spots this season....no trophies, but not shabby either...and certainly not deserving of the hysteria this manager has to put up with from an army of bedwetters.

Neither of those are achievements, at all, for anyone

 

[davek]

Neither of those are achievements, at all, for anyone

...or sacking offences...at all.

 

[MikeH72]

...or sacking offences...at all.

Two consecutive bottom half finishes would be with this squad. 90% of the fan saw pretty much agree on that

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Blind loyalty - record points total first season, last English club in Europe last season, on the cusp of nailing two domestic cup SF spots this season....no trophies, but not shabby either...and certainly not deserving of the hysteria this manager has to put up with from an army of bedwetters.

'ere you go mate, let's use you're own example...y'know the no difference between 5th and 15th, that one...

72 points = and what?
last English team in Europe = and what?
potentially two semi's = and what? (what do we get for them again?)

It's funny, how you're so selective with stuff yet revert back constantly to the 72.

Hysteria/Kneejerk.....whatever you choose to say...it isn't, not anymore, he is what he is mate, he's average but, more than that, he's so open that he's been found out hugely.

But crack on with the love in mate, it's really sweet...