Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[beautifulthing]

Stop blaming the fans.

This myth was exploded last week.

He ain't up to the job.

Simple as.

Wish I could give this +10.

 

[Mogwai]

The thing is Martinez has put our club in a great position to achieve success now and in the future. That's why the fanbase is so frustrated.

Unfortunately, even though he has shaped the club philosophy and built this squad, he is not very adept at utilizing it.

I don't think another manager could have done much better with respect to creating the potential for success. So for that I am thankful. Its just such a shame he can't manage games. He would be a perfect director of football, but presently misses the practical tactical accumine to achieve anything consistently.

I am of the view to give him one more season in the hope he learns. It could be all so perfect if he does. It wouldn't take much for another manager to come in and ruin the good things Martinez has done with respect to shaping our club philosophy.

 

[Saint Domingo]

As soon as he said he made Joe Allen a 15 mill player that confirmed it. Head gone.

 

[BlueToff]

Press conference comes across as honest and not defensive at all to me. Think he does deserve credit for the squad being in good shape for the future. Plenty of managers focus primarily on results knowing they can move on without a squad built for years down the line. The balance between this and results needs to be found. Which he has said himself.
New investors will be looking at all of this and be giving Martinez more than enough time.
Don't think they'll be focusing on a substitution that's gone from poorly judged to a huge mistake that defines an era thanks to a level of confirmation bias on here.
It would be good if they got the sense they'd walked into a club where the crowd is fiercely behind it's team rather than one mainly focused on the changes they want. Could be what they feel they've brought into.

I think he touches on that at the end (bar the jarg about Allen) that he is maybe a manager who sets in place a style that will get long-term success. I'm not saying that will definitely happen but I do think the chances of sustained success are much more likely now.

The problem is in the short-term he keeps making the same mistakes and it may be why somebody else has to come in and take it to the next level.

He deserves a fair crack though considering the amount of work put into transforming the squad and system and at first building on what Moyes had built in a league that has got more competitive in the last four years than it did in the previous 8 before that.

For me that time is three seasons and then re-assess. It seems obvious where the issues are and it shouldn't take much to change that. The question is whether he is capable of changing it for more than 4 or 5 games and then re-making the same mistakes, which will ultimately get us no where.

 

[Mickey]

Yeh don't think he explained that well.

I think it could be construed two ways.

One - him saying we don't have experienced players. Well, that's down-right wrong.

Two - or is he saying that as a squad (together) they haven't got a lot of experience.

I'm not sure he's definitely saying either one or the other but I think you could take it either way. Option two would be a good point, I think, but then option one would be nonsense...

We need an interpreter for Bobby's pressers now. Jesus wept.

 

[Khalekan]

As soon as he said he made Joe Allen a 15 mill player that confirmed it. Head gone.

lol lol lol

 

[BlueToff]

The thing is Martinez has put our club in a great position to achieve success now and in the future. That's why the fanbase is so frustrated.

Unfortunately, even though he has shaped the club philosophy and built this squad, he is not very adept at utilizing it.

I don't think another manager could have done much better with respect to creating the potential for success. So for that I am thankful. Its just such a shame he can't manage games. He would be a perfect director of football, but presently misses the practical tactical accumine to achieve anything consistently.

I am of the view to give him one more season in the hope he learns. It could be all so perfect if he does. It wouldn't take much for another manager to come in and ruin the good things Martinez has done with respect to shaping our club philosophy.

That's what I'd say mate.

Give him until the end of the season barring any major catastrophe in the next few weeks.

As long as we manage a respectable finish in the league and show major improvements in the home form (and fingers crossed go for the cup which I'm sure we will go all out to do...) then I won't be happy but I'll accept it. If he doesn't manage that he goes in May.

If he does manage that then it gets re-assessed in the summer and he gets given clear targets to meet by a certain point in the season (for example 12 games (so a third in). If he meets these targets then fine and if he doesn't then he goes and we have a replacement lined up ala Liverpool with Klippity.

 

[Mickey]

the bit I put in bold where he clearly states the results have not been good enough and they (he... the team) need to face it...

And in the bit I quoted he's saying he's played a blinder. Yours wasn't the full version either, guess you can take either depending what you're looking for. I'd stay away from making bold proclamations though.

 

[BlueToff]

We need an interpreter for Bobby's pressers now. Jesus wept.

That wasn't a presser. It was an interview and the journalist put the spin on it at the top.

IMO in that interview he has said nothing wrong (other than coming across a bit Rodgers/Pardew-esque with the Joe Allen thing).

The presser was nonsense and I've said that...

 

[Khalekan]

The thing is Martinez has put our club in a great position to achieve success now and in the future. That's why the fanbase is so frustrated.

Unfortunately, even though he has shaped the club philosophy and built this squad, he is not very adept at utilizing it.

I don't think another manager could have done much better with respect to creating the potential for success. So for that I am thankful. Its just such a shame he can't manage games. He would be a perfect director of football, but presently misses the practical tactical accumine to achieve anything consistently.

I am of the view to give him one more season in the hope he learns. It could be all so perfect if he does. It wouldn't take much for another manager to come in and ruin the good things Martinez has done with respect to shaping our club philosophy.

hmmmmmm.......much as I am minded right now to call a taxi, I won't be altogether broken hearted if he is given another season.

Or at least a chance in the first few months of next season to show he can be so much more than a show pony.

 

[BlueToff]

And in the bit I quoted he's saying he's played a blinder. Yours wasn't the full version either, guess you can take either depending what you're looking for. I'd stay away from making bold proclamations though.

Yes it was the full version mate.

NSNO took an excerpt from the original article, which is the one that @mkrudden posted last night.

I just bolded the bit that NSNO has missed out...

 

[Lanolin]

Yeh don't think he explained that well.

I think it could be construed two ways.

One - him saying we don't have experienced players. Well, that's down-right wrong.

Two - or is he saying that as a squad (together) they haven't got a lot of experience.

I'm not sure he's definitely saying either one or the other but I think you could take it either way. Option two would be a good point, I think, but then option one would be nonsense...

Even the second option, i think is misguided.

Of the 10 players on the pitch I mentioned, 7 of them have been here three years or more. Add to that Howard, Baines, Stones, Osman, Pienaar, Kone and you see that the squad has been together a long time. That's not including the likes of Gibson, Hibbert, Garbutt etc who are still our players but haven't really played. You've then got Lennon and Deulofeu who have been here all this year and both had loan spells before, and Cleverley who has worked under the same manager/staff and should be well aware of what is being asked of him.

I know we've got some young players but they've got more than enough experience around them to guide them.

 

[BlueToff]

Even the second option, i think is misguided.

Of the 10 players on the pitch I mentioned, 7 of them have been here three years or more. Add to that Howard, Baines, Stones, Osman, Pienaar, Kone and you see that the squad has been together a long time. That's not including the likes of Gibson, Hibbert, Garbutt etc who are still our players but haven't really played. You've then got Lennon and Deulofeu who have been here all this year and both had loan spells before, and Cleverley who has worked under the same manager/staff and should be well aware of what is being asked of him.

I know we've got some young players but they've got more than enough experience around them to guide them.

Yeh I suppose mate.

It's hard to explain what I meant.

Maybe as 'experience of being in certain positions' etc etc is what he should have said.

I'll admit it's confusing though so there's no point looking into it too deeply. Just hoping for a strong reaction (from him and the players) come Saturday.

 

[bluestevon]

^^^^ = "stop contradicting us...join the lynch mob...just pick up a pitchfork and join in the fun".

No thanks. Loyalty is not a bad trait in my world...it may be in yours, but not in mine.

Where was Martinez and his LOYALTy to the Swansea project you stated he put in motion Dave, made a promise to them that he was going nowhere - left at the end of the season when he failed to get promoted when wigan came calling, got wigan relegated - a true loyal man would have felt he owed it to them to try get them back up - again martinez jumped ship as soon as a bigger offer with better prospects came along. Talk about Loyalty all you want mate, Martinez has shown loyalty when it suits him and when it doesn't he moves without a second thought - showed great loyalty in taking wigans captain, top scorer and their best player in Alcaraz, Kone and McCArthy as wel as their keepr didn't he lol

Only time Martinez showed any Loyalty was turning down the rs job - although makes you wodner why he went for an interview if he was staying loyaol to Wigan though, and he turned it down because he wouldn't have had the easy ride it promised to be with Kenwrigth forever in charge and he would have been sacked by now, onyl problem though is with a new owenr his safety blanket has gone and frankly he must be pure bricking it now and know his flim flam is soon to see him on the dole

 

[bluestevon]

13 goals away from home this season says otherwise. Only Spurs on 12 have conceded less away.

Our problem is that we have no leaders in the team who can galvanise these players to play solidly in front of sceptical home supporters. Those who travel away to watch Everton will know the chalk and cheese defending performances well enough. I know you do go away so I dont need to tell you.

It's a shame that half of the seasons games have to be played at home then....

Our problem is a manager who is out of his depth, as you are seeming to be of late with your defense for him getting as porous as ours at home mate

By all means though blame the captain - the same captain ofc who led the team to our heroic 72 points total as well btw, the same captain who has been an intergral part of this team year in year out whilst it finished in the top 5-8, BTW Dave where is your much lauded Loyalty to the clubs captain? Hypocritical mate - pure hypocritical