Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[BlueToff]

Nothing in Moshiri's statement about him except to say good luck. He's even supporting Kenwright and Elstone but not a word about our 'inestimable' manager (as Bill once said). I'd be polishing up the CV Roberto, how much was Joe Allen worth when you started working with him again?

'I have committed to transfers'... which leads you to believe that he has committed that money to Roberto...

 

[Carlito]

Not heard of that transformer

Haha - well and truly undone there.

I'll claim auto-correct and hope you all believe me.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Farhad Moshiri - 'Finally, and most importantly, Everton is about great football and winning matches.'

Clearly he's giving Martinez the boot then...

 

[BlueToff]

Farhad Moshiri - 'Finally, and most importantly, Everton is about great football and winning matches.'

Clearly he's giving Martinez the boot then...

We've won five of seven...

Could do with winning at home, mind

 

[The Mighty Quint]

We've won five of seven...

Could do with winning at home, mind

12th mate, 12th.

 

[micknick]

Nothing in Moshiri's statement about him except to say good luck. He's even supporting Kenwright and Elstone but not a word about our 'inestimable' manager (as Bill once said). I'd be polishing up the CV Roberto, how much was Joe Allen worth when you started working with him again?

Wow. I read that statement and had a lump in my throat, youve read it and questioned why he is supporting the people he now works with.

Just wow

 

[MikeH72]

'I have committed to transfers'... which leads you to believe that he has committed that money to Roberto...

Why does it mean that? Is Roberto the only manager that's allowed to sign players?

 

[BlueToff]

Why does it mean that? Is Roberto the only manager that's allowed to sign players?

No it doesn't, of course.

But why does it mean what @Saint Domingo is saying???

It seems common sense that he wouldn't commit money to transfers unless he had discussed it with the (current) manager...

 

[BlueToff]

12th mate, 12th.

Yeh I know mate.

Not 19th.

 

[eddy]

'I have committed to transfers'... which leads you to believe that he has committed that money to Roberto...

Bit vague .... if Moshiri was in talks for 18 months as quoted, I think he has the measure of Martinez, could commit funds to new man.

 

[davek]

'ere you go mate, let's use you're own example...y'know the no difference between 5th and 15th, that one...

72 points = and what?
last English team in Europe = and what?
potentially two semi's = and what? (what do we get for them again?)

It's funny, how you're so selective with stuff yet revert back constantly to the 72.

Hysteria/Kneejerk.....whatever you choose to say...it isn't, not anymore, he is what he is mate, he's average but, more than that, he's so open that he's been found out hugely.

But crack on with the love in mate, it's really sweet...

I'll tell you "and what" - name me any Everton manager who's ever had to leave the job getting midtable and having two extensive cup runs in the same season....I'll give you a clue: none.

You and others are using a higher threshold to judge Martinez than other past Everton managers. The people in charge wont. Hard lines.

On the captaincy subject, a captain is the manager's voice on the pitch. You think maybe Jagielka is a church mouse on the pitch because he has a spineless church mouse of a manager above him? That's why Martinez loves him as captain, because he has no personality or authority and won't answer back. Look at Roy Keane and Fergie, they absolutely hated each other and argued all the time, who'd have thought they were among the most successful managers and captains ever eh

He's the one you complain about for marginalising Mirallas and sorting Distin out.

If only Jagielka could sort out our defence we'd be a lot better off. He's garbage as a leader.

I disagree here.
We have leaders.
We need more winners though.
That's what the cash this summer should be used for.

I dont see these leaders mate. I honestly dont. I see an Everton team after defeats like last week's game look down at the ground and mope off the pitch rather than look angry and pissed off determined to fix matters. The only one's who look like it hurts to be defeated are Besic and Mori - and both are infinitely suited to the armband than that quivering jellyfish Jagielka.

I thoroughly disagree mate

I think you're using an incredibly narrow sample size there and it's skewed the figures

I think our defending has been a problem for nearly 18 months now

We hardly ever press, give the opposition far too much space and gift silly goals from crosses and set pieces

That isn't down to lack of leaders or the supporters, it's down to ingrained and chronic tactical flaws

I'm not dumping all the blame on Martinez here, but I do think he needs to do something about this and a new defensive coach with a fresh perspective on things would be just the ticket

The figures are for a season mate and they tell a real big story. I'd be happy for you to put forward some alternative explanation as to why we've conceded so few away and yet leak them at home. I'd really like to hear that.

I agree on all of that mate.

I just think that RM needs to show (like he had done away from home and in certain games at Goodison (Spurs and City spring to mind) that he can organise the defence as a unit.

He did it for the first 75 minutes and Jagielka played well for that time on Saturday.

But as soon as he took off Lennon and we lost our shape, and then conceded, the reaction all-round (from player and manager) was really poor IMO - even taking into account we were down to 10 men.

Under Moyes his main thing was defending as a team. Under RM I think he encourages a more 'improvised' approach rather than a rigid system. I think it works for some players but our defence, all in all, is better when under a more rigid formula - especially at defending crosses.

As you said there: away from home and in certain games at home this season the glaring errors aren't there, which doesn't suggest to me anything sytematic is the issue. The issue is a very straight forward one to understand: these players brick it at home and lose all positional sense and fight when the going gets tight or tough.

There's nothing more to it than that. Occam's Razor rather than any convoluted theory applies best here.

As soon as he said he made Joe Allen a 15 mill player that confirmed it. Head gone.

He said he became a £15M player. I dont remember reading he thinks he's worth £15M. If he did he might have put a bid in for him.

Where was Martinez and his LOYALTy to the Swansea project you stated he put in motion Dave, made a promise to them that he was going nowhere - left at the end of the season when he failed to get promoted when wigan came calling, got wigan relegated - a true loyal man would have felt he owed it to them to try get them back up - again martinez jumped ship as soon as a bigger offer with better prospects came along. Talk about Loyalty all you want mate, Martinez has shown loyalty when it suits him and when it doesn't he moves without a second thought - showed great loyalty in taking wigans captain, top scorer and their best player in Alcaraz, Kone and McCArthy as wel as their keepr didn't he lol

Only time Martinez showed any Loyalty was turning down the rs job - although makes you wodner why he went for an interview if he was staying loyaol to Wigan though, and he turned it down because he wouldn't have had the easy ride it promised to be with Kenwrigth forever in charge and he would have been sacked by now, onyl problem though is with a new owenr his safety blanket has gone and frankly he must be pure bricking it now and know his flim flam is soon to see him on the dole

The issue with leaving Swansea was the pull back to his old club Wigan he'd been brought to England to play for. Understandable move. And leaving Wigan was as much about them not advancing the club off the pitch as much as fulfilling his ambition with a bigger club.

It's a shame that half of the seasons games have to be played at home then....

Our problem is a manager who is out of his depth, as you are seeming to be of late with your defense for him getting as porous as ours at home mate

By all means though blame the captain - the same captain ofc who led the team to our heroic 72 points total as well btw, the same captain who has been an intergral part of this team year in year out whilst it finished in the top 5-8, BTW Dave where is your much lauded Loyalty to the clubs captain? Hypocritical mate - pure hypocritical

There's nothing porous about defending Martinez in any of his incarnations as manager in his career. Continue to belittle those achievements though if it makes you feel justified in joining in with a hysterical mob.

Moshiri 'Most of all Everton is about great football and winning matches'

Bye bye Roberto

Great football? That sounds like he's well into the entertainers. Sound.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I wonder who's going to be first out with the "Tell all" book when Bobby gets hooked. My money is on Osman. A lot of pieces will fall into place I'm sure.

Baines for me mate. I can defo see it happening.

 

[Klinker]

I don't understand why people get so caught up in Martinez' press conferences. Posters make it seem like Martinez is always completely honest and believes 100% in what he says. I think it should be pretty clear that Martinez will never bad mouth his own players, while deflecting any criticism and purposely pumping their tires. Do you actually think Barry "is the greatest English PL player of all time"? While maybe you can argue that this boosts players egos too much, I think in general it has been pretty effective. For example, look how Barkley has responded when he is being praised and he is confident in his abilities and compare it to last year when Roy was bad mouthing him at every turn over.

While a good FA cup performance can make all of this belly aching kind of moot (I am sure everyone would take some silverware and 11th place vs nothing and 7th), I still would give Martinez another year. There is still room for improvement as a team performance, individually a lot of players have been playing very well. Here is my breakdown:

Very Good Seasons:

Barkley
Lukaku
Barry
Gerry
Funes Mori
Lennon
Cleverly
Besic *limited time
Oviedo *limited time

Solid:
Baines* (Limited time, maybe no longer a top 5 LB, but still good)
McCarthy
Coleman
Robles
Jagielka (Borderline very good)
Stones (He has been all over from superb to very poor. I don't think it is a coincidence his poor form has been when he has gotten extra media attention e.g. transfer request, home fans getting on him)
Galloway (Very good compared to expectations, but only solid compared to average PL LB)

Poor
Howard
Mirallas *Playing time has not helped
Osman



N/A

Gibson
Pienaar
Niasse
Hibbert

I may be missing someone but I believe everyone who is in the poor and N/A form will no longer have a future come next season and higher quality replacements will be brought in (I completely trust in Martinez in the transfer market by the way). If you change managers you run the VERY big risks of bringing in an unknown who would want to change systems, bring in different style of players and possibly give reason for our current stars to seek greener pastures.

Yes, the season is frustrating but I am tired of people arguing over the same issues every week.Yes, we suck at dealing with crosses (we were only really good at dealing with them when we had Distin. Jags was always poor) Yes, there have been late and questionable substitutions but unless you are Fergie, substitutions are more of a crap shoot (see RM's first season when we had the most goals from subs). I also do think Martinez is smart enough to recognize these issues and plans to address them in the summer.

Hopefully we beat Chelsea tomorrow and the toxicity can subside for 1 week.

 

[eddy]

Be a great read, I want to read the part about playing ` asymmetrical shapes` and how the players reacted, probably like the
media at the press conference.

 

[bluestevon]

I'll tell you "and what" - name me any Everton manager who's ever had to leave the job getting midtable and having two extensive cup runs in the same season....I'll give you a clue: none.

You and others are using a higher threshold to judge Martinez than other past Everton managers. The people in charge wont. Hard lines.


He's the one you complain about for marginalising Mirallas and sorting Distin out.

If only Jagielka could sort out our defence we'd be a lot better off. He's garbage as a leader.

I dont see these leaders mate. I honestly dont. I see an Everton team after defeats like last week's game look down at the ground and mope off the pitch rather than look angry and pissed off determined to fix matters. The only one's who look like it hurts to be defeated are Besic and Mori - and both are infinitely suited to the armband than that quivering jellyfish Jagielka.

The figures are for a season mate and they tell a real big story. I'd be happy for you to put forward some alternative explanation as to why we've conceded so few away and yet leak them at home. I'd really like to hear that.

As you said there: away from home and in certain games at home this season the glaring errors aren't there, which doesn't suggest to me anything sytematic is the issue. The issue is a very straight forward one to understand: these players brick it at home and lose all positional sense and fight when the going gets tight or tough.

There's nothing more to it than that. Occam's Razor rather than any convoluted theory applies best here.

He said he became a £15M player. I dont remember reading he thinks he's worth £15M. If he did he might have put a bid in for him.


The issue with leaving Swansea was the pull back to his old club Wigan he'd been brought to England to play for. Understandable move. And leaving Wigan was as much about them not advancing the club off the pitch as much as fulfilling his ambition with a bigger club.



There's nothing porous about defending Martinez in any of his incarnations as manager in his career. Continue to belittle those achievements though if it makes you feel justified in joining in with a hysterical mob.



Great football? That sounds like he's well into the entertainers. Sound.

No Hysteria from me at all Dave, Martinez is when you analyse everything he has done and said, just not up to the job, maybe because i think the job of an Everton manager is to have this club pushing as hard as it can do to be the best it can be, not wallowing in mid/lower table and thinking a semi final capitulation is a 'great season'