Don't forget 11th in the 4th.
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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
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Don't forget 11th in the 4th.
LAToffee
Player Valuation: £20m
Depends. I'm a complete masochist and find all the pain and misery I need right here.
Elong
The fire rises
Ta, I was just trying to answer your question off the top of my head.
hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
7th - 17th - 4th - 11th - 6th - 5th - 5th - 8th - 7th - 7th - 6th
Pretty consistent from 2007-2008 season.
hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
I see. Fair enough.
LAToffee
Player Valuation: £20m
Martinez said he thought we should be competing for champion league places. That was a league target. No where near that for 2 out of 3 seasons. He stays put for the cup run and winning that I think he earns a start of season grace to show he's turned the ship around. Of course, the opinions of randoms on this forum has no impact on whether he stays or goes.
hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
Most of the fans will want him gone if he can't win the cup as their concern is based on two seasons of dreadful league results. Cup runs are irrelevant. They are meaningless if you don't win the cup you just get nothing from it. if you get 5th-7th you get Euro and a place in the league is worthed around £1.2m each. So there is a significant difference if you get 5th and not 15th.
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
The thing about Moyes' results were that he'd taken on a truly abysmal squad; whilst frustrating to see us oscillate so wildly in the first few seasons, with hindsight it wasn't to be unexpected. And he did finally manage to steady the ship ('steady' being the operative word, he made us a solid yet unspectacular side that was capable of knocking on the door of the top 4).
So what excuse does Martinez have? He took on a pretty good squad, and has taken it backwards.
I don't think comparing the league positions of Moyes and Martinez really paints a true picture of the state of the club at the start of their respective tenures.
Professor Toffee
On and on, over the hill and the craic is good
Good point but theres no way our new overlord is going to trust him with the transfer kitty
We have a good ensemble of players at the moment, but a team, clearly not!
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
9 games left Dave not 11 - just saying for accuracy
Moyes had taken over a team that for 5 of the 6 previous seasons had been in a relegation dogfight and under serious threat - saved us when he joined in March with us looking absolute certs to go down - which gave him huge credit, then finished 7th which again was a better leage position than we'd had in 7 years, second highest points total we had managed in 15 years, and after that one bad season he responded with our highest ever premiership finish the season after, all with absolutely no money - forced to sell his brightest player in Rooney
martinez had one very good points total in his first season- after taking over a team that routinely had finished for the past 7 years in the same league position 5-7th, he then had a terrible season and finished outside the top half - the first time that had happened in 9 seasons, he then followed that up with what looks likely to be a lower again placed finish, all whilst having inherited a much better squad than the previous manager, having not had to sell anyone and whilst having had a lot more money to spend than did the previous manager
If Moyes had taken over in the same circumstances that martinez had and 3 years in had produced the same RESULTS - then frankly he should and with the new owner would be sacked mate, its called having ambition and being not to blind to see that our manager is out of his depth and lacks the neccesary skill set to manage a club in the top end of the table - in fact to manage any club in this league he isnt good enough.
Martinez is a ideas man, has an idea, sounds good and can talk about it well, but he just isn't able to see it to fruition as he lacks the day to day ability to do so, not his fault, we all have strengths and flaws, but martinez is in a job that those flaws are unnaceptable - he should be sacked and replaced with someone who is more capable, in years to come we may look back at his 3 year reign with thanks for thigns he had put into place that a new manager took forwards and made work, i hpe we do, one thign for certain though - Martinez is not the man to be able to do that - he has shown that all the way throughout his managerial career
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Yup a few innacuracies - at west brom is it was the managerial juggernaut of Steve Clarke not Pullis, he scored 17 not 16 goals - and errrm thats the innacuracies mate - so not that many really was their?
Lukaku at West Brom wa used brilliantly then is what your saying - manager realised he was still a young lad developing and wasn't ready for 90 minutes and got the best out of him, but trying to give Martinez full credit for developing him is daft - all the lad needed was to be getting played and any manager who put him on the pitch was going to look good, west brom showed what a talent he was and he was ready for this league - not Martinez
If you think Lukaku week in week out bullies defences your wrong mate, it's the most often criticised thing about him the fact he doesn't do that week in and week out as when he does he is unplayable
Alcaraz wa splayed because martinez didn't want to risk stones - but stones was fit enough for the bench mate - why was he on the bench if he couldn't play - or was that a mistake from martinez? - Distin was also fit but the manager had had a schoolyard falling out and had put him in the naughty corner so we where left with Alcaraz having to play and yeah he didn't have to criticise him after the game - but hewent out of his way to bloody well praise him mate and that was insulting to everyone who'd watched that game and saw him being terrible.
As for the game itself be didn't get beat mate w egot absolutely embaressed and it was up their with the wigan 3-0 loss under Moyes for that
I don't get this endless debate between Moyes and Martinez, it's irrelevant. With the potential to kick on financially now on board, we need to be aspiring to reach a level neither Moyes or Martinez were/are capable of. Starting by aiming higher than 4th ffs.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Ignore the way our form has been away from home compared to at home mate as well, and the fact we have 6 away games left and only 3 at home makes that points total look even worse, conventional wisdom suggests you will get a much higher points tally at home vs away
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
I think the comparisons of their respective performances in their first few seasons are perfectly relevant. It serves to highlight just how poorly RM is doing when framed against the team Moyes inherited.
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