Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[BlueToff]

For me the 'one off' comments are a bit laughable. After the Lord Mayor's parade and all that. Shows he refuses to see reality.

But also his 'I'm trying to build a football club' comments also shows something else - a small club mentality on his part. We don't need to be built, we are already a big club thanks. He can say he's a winner all he likes, he isn't big enough for us judging by these remarks.

For all his posturing, I'm afraid it seems to me (lately) that he just doesn't see things the way everyone else does. For all his talk of changing to a winning mentality (admirable), he's fostering a losing one.

In fairness Grouch I'm not sure he meant that.

I think RM's basic ideology will lead to long-term success in terms of producing better 'footballers'.

However, his unwillingness or inability to change certain small aspects (defending set pieces, defending crosses, pressing high) for any sustained run is his downfall.

It's an unwavering belief in a style that - if just a few tweaks were made - would see us challenging on all fronts.

The first season - with a well-drilled defence that he did actually improve - we were outstanding. He showed what he can do when there's a mix.

At times this season, specifically away from home and in the cup runs, he seemed to have cracked it.

But we have absolutely no consistency and while the players must share the blame for that, it also stems from the manager.

No Everton manager, given our recent record, should have to be relying on winning a cup to keep his job going into next season (and even then he would have to show serious improvement in the league first few games of next term), IMO.

But I think that's the position we're in at the moment.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't think there are many clubs if any that would not have sacked Martinez by now, only with a chairman like Bill would he still be in a job.

what's the point now though?

All it would do is further disrupt the squad ahead of the semi-final.

If he's gonna go (assuming we didn't win the cup) then it might as well be in the summer.

If we win the cup he gets pre-season and the first 10 games or so of next term to show he can turn it around.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

what's the point now though?

All it would do is further disrupt the squad ahead of the semi-final.

If he's gonna go (assuming we didn't win the cup) then it might as well be in the summer.

If we win the cup he gets pre-season and the first 10 games or so of next term to show he can turn it around.

No now is not the time to sack him, if he survives to next season I will be surprised, his record over the last two seasons can not be defended.

 

[oldblue]

Moshiri has been in talks for 18 months about buying the club so he would have been watching us very closely and has seen what we all have.

And decided he wants to invest which would suggest he's pleased with foundations for the future. This is the big argument in favour of Martinez. Even if they act at some point next season then it's likely they'll be looking very carefully to find someone who has the same long term principles.
And if he's been watching he'll know Arsenal was a one off in terms of this season. It's been generally agreed that we've lost or drawn games when we've dominated and then looked nervous and too open. We haven't been outclassed and looked as lost as we did on Saturday except maybe against Man u

 

[BlueToff]

No now is not the time to sack him, if he survives to next season I will be surprised, his record over the last two seasons can not be defended.

While not defended their are also positives that people fail to take into account.

If he wins the Cup - which would be our first trophy for 21 years - then he gets a period of grace, IMO.

However, if he doesn't use that time well (in this hypothetical situation) then he goes.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

It wasn't even like his first season was amazing. It was very good don't get me wrong but he improved a massive 1 place on Moyes' last season and now he's taken us 6 places backwards.

 

[Ashtonluke]

In fairness Grouch I'm not sure he meant that.

I think RM's basic ideology will lead to long-term success in terms of producing better 'footballers'.

However, his unwillingness or inability to change certain small aspects (defending set pieces, defending crosses, pressing high) for any sustained run is his downfall.

It's an unwavering belief in a style that - if just a few tweaks were made - would see us challenging on all fronts.

The first season - with a well-drilled defence that he did actually improve - we were outstanding. He showed what he can do when there's a mix.

At times this season, specifically away from home and in the cup runs, he seemed to have cracked it.

But we have absolutely no consistency and while the players must share the blame for that, it also stems from the manager.

No Everton manager, given our recent record, should have to be relying on winning a cup to keep his job going into next season (and even then he would have to show serious improvement in the league first few games of next term), IMO.

But I think that's the position we're in at the moment.

Agree with you here mate. I don't think it's wholesale changes to our approach in games that's required but there are aspects, and you've named the main things above, that need to change.

I'd hoped that the manager would have recognised this and tried to make alterations but week in week out I just don't see it. That's what frustrates me the most.

I think the new owner really need to consider the manager's position at the end of the season, even if we win the cup.

We are told that there is money there and they need to decide if they have total faith in Roberto or not. If they don't, they need to bring someone else in and give them the cash to build the team.

 

[DrEFC]

Martinez has, through astute purchases, greatly increased the value of our squad. He has also shown much more willingness to let youth have a chance and bring players through from the academy. I think his record of buying and "blooding" players is excellent. It's his inability to make the most of a squad that HE in large part has assembled. Get so bored with the inability of Martinez critics to see him as anything other than the great Satan "has destroyed our club." That's such a parody position. He's failed to meet his own targets, yes. But I am not one of those supporter who sees zero merit in what he tried--and yes failed--to achieve in terms of attacking football and squad development. It's not happening but frankly I find all the lines about "fraud" and "imposter" and "get out of my club" silly. The whole unwinding of this, if that's what is happening, is a little more complicated. As anybody who reads this thread after we beat Chelsea and then after we lose to Arsenal understands (not that I'd wish that on anyone!).

Pure hyperbole. Just label anyone who wants Martinez to be removed as manager as some weird zealots branding him Satan. Have you actually read this thread? Bit by bit pulled apart his deficiencies as a manager and decided they outweigh his positives. He's been given the resources beyond what he had at Wigan and now achieving similar results the last few seasons. His first season was great, fair enough, but we to actually win games, not talk a great game.

 

[oldblue]

For me the 'one off' comments are a bit laughable. After the Lord Mayor's parade and all that. Shows he refuses to see reality.

But also his 'I'm trying to build a football club' comments also shows something else - a small club mentality on his part. We don't need to be built, we are already a big club thanks. He can say he's a winner all he likes, he isn't big enough for us judging by these remarks.

For all his posturing, I'm afraid it seems to me (lately) that he just doesn't see things the way everyone else does. For all his talk of changing to a winning mentality (admirable), he's fostering a losing one.

I think we're a big club but we have never been one that throw money at problems. Under Moyes we turned into one that was excellent at firefighting. Now I think we have got to put structures in place that means we are attracting young talent who know what we are about and why this club is special.
I totally agree there needs to be a winning mentality and I honestly believe that's more likely to emerge from getting a trophy under the belt more than sneaking into Europa.
I don't care if it's Martinez that gets the job done but I think the danger is we replace him with a quick fix. There's obviously better managers out there with similar philosophies about how to run a football club. No guarantee we'll get one.

 

[ijjysmith]

He's not actually going anywhere though is he?

With all the polls, and hatred growing against him, he's not actually going to be sacked.

 

[hktoffee]

He's not actually going anywhere though is he?

With all the polls, and hatred growing against him, he's not actually going to be sacked.

No one knows what the new boss is going to do is it? I guess any decision will be based on the cup.

 

[ijjysmith]

No one knows what the new boss is going to do is it? I guess any decision will be based on the cup.

My gut feeling is that Roberto Martinez is untouchable at Everton because Kenwright loves him.

 

[DrEFC]

He's not actually going anywhere though is he?

With all the polls, and hatred growing against him, he's not actually going to be sacked.

Of course he isn't Bill is too sweet and sentimental for that. Don't mean we can't debate the hell out of it though! We still flop the remaining home games the board will hear the discontent far more loudly. If he can sort the whole winning games thing out, we'd love him again cos he's lovely fella who has helped bring the club closer to the fans and foster the relations with the community. But essentially he's been crap at the actual main point of his job.

 

[hktoffee]

My gut feeling is that Roberto Martinez is untouchable at Everton because Kenwright loves him.

I hope Kenwright won't stand in the way for the love of this football club. The new boss has stated Everton is about winning football matches. We have a wining rate of 31% (league) in nearly two seasons. That's not right unless a cup win which will just buy him some time (not that I want him to stay but a cup win will forbid him from sacking under this board).

 

[ijjysmith]

Of course he isn't Bill is too sweet and sentimental for that. Don't mean we can't debate the hell out of it though! We still flop the remaining home games the board will hear the discontent far more loudly. If he can sort the whole winning games thing out, we'd love him again cos he's lovely fella who has helped bring the club closer to the fans and foster the relations with the community. But essentially he's been crap at the actual main point of his job.

Definitely. I rekcon it's worth remembering that it won't happen though. Even if it should.

You're right though. He does so much right, that we all want him to get it sorted.