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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence


Results are only viewable after voting.
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The thing about Moyes' results were that he'd taken on a truly abysmal squad; whilst frustrating to see us oscillate so wildly in the first few seasons, with hindsight it wasn't to be unexpected. And he did finally manage to steady the ship ('steady' being the operative word, he made us a solid yet unspectacular side that was capable of knocking on the door of the top 4).

So what excuse does Martinez have? He took on a pretty good squad, and has taken it backwards.

I don't think comparing the league positions of Moyes and Martinez really paints a true picture of the state of the club at the start of their respective tenures.
Martinez has, through astute purchases, greatly increased the value of our squad. He has also shown much more willingness to let youth have a chance and bring players through from the academy. I think his record of buying and "blooding" players is excellent. It's his inability to make the most of a squad that HE in large part has assembled. Get so bored with the inability of Martinez critics to see him as anything other than the great Satan "has destroyed our club." That's such a parody position. He's failed to meet his own targets, yes. But I am not one of those supporter who sees zero merit in what he tried--and yes failed--to achieve in terms of attacking football and squad development. It's not happening but frankly I find all the lines about "fraud" and "imposter" and "get out of my club" silly. The whole unwinding of this, if that's what is happening, is a little more complicated. As anybody who reads this thread after we beat Chelsea and then after we lose to Arsenal understands (not that I'd wish that on anyone!).
 
I think the comparisons of their respective performances in their first few seasons are perfectly relevant. It serves to highlight just how poorly RM is doing when framed against the team Moyes inherited.
The team that is underperforming was not inherited from Moyes. The vast majority of those he's offloaded (to most folk's praise) are Moyes signings. Our best players are those he signed. And those who are great that Moes signed did not get their game under Moyes. This is what later Everton historians will describe as the Moyes-martinez paradox.
 
Martinez days are numbered IMO. New owner and no public backing from him. Moshiri has been in talks for 18 months about buying the club so he would have been watching us very closely and has seen what we all have. He would know that Saturdays game against Arsenal was not a one. Also new owners generally want to bring in their own man.
 
The argument as to whether Martinez should be sacked is quite simple. It is irrelevant whether he is doing better or worse than his predeceasor.

1. Is Martinez getting the best from the squad ? - No
2. Is another manager capable of getting better results with this group of players ? -Yes
3. Do we have the finances to compensate Martinez and recruit a replacement ? -Apparently.

As others have said Martinez is an idealist , not interested in some of the finer detail.

For instance we know from his own comments and those of his players that he is only interested in the creative side of the game and pays no attention to , for example , defending set pieces.

Idealism is laudable but has no great relevance in a results based industry.

Sadly , because his footballing heart is in the right place and it's not good to see anyone lose their job , his performance over an extended period of time shows that he does not have the ability to manage Everton FC and he should be replaced.
 

Use the '72' as a yardstick.....yet discount all tallies prior & since?

Use the MOYES years as yardstick.....yet discount RM's WIGAN reign?

Pfffff......

All very noble, the defence of him like, doesn't hide the simple fact that he's just not long-term capable not currently cutting it.

He lacks the acumen, nous & awareness to manage our football club (any football club?) through a league campaign, how obvious does that need to become?
 
Martinez has, through astute purchases, greatly increased the value of our squad. He has also shown much more willingness to let youth have a chance and bring players through from the academy. I think his record of buying and "blooding" players is excellent. It's his inability to make the most of a squad that HE in large part has assembled. Get so bored with the inability of Martinez critics to see him as anything other than the great Satan "has destroyed our club." That's such a parody position. He's failed to meet his own targets, yes. But I am not one of those supporter who sees zero merit in what he tried--and yes failed--to achieve in terms of attacking football and squad development. It's not happening but frankly I find all the lines about "fraud" and "imposter" and "get out of my club" silly. The whole unwinding of this, if that's what is happening, is a little more complicated. As anybody who reads this thread after we beat Chelsea and then after we lose to Arsenal understands (not that I'd wish that on anyone!).

Besides Lukaku whose value has exactly increased greatly that Martinez has bought mate, paid 10m for Mori, 14m for Naisse, 15m for McCarthy - on two of thsoe three we'd make a ok profit, one of them probably a big loss - but he's knew so will see on that.
Lukaku - yeah no doubt we'd make at least a 20m profit on him, but the player whose value has increased most is Stones and Martinez didn't buy him - Moyes did, and Barkley who is an academy product first introduced by Moyes as well, Deulofeu - Barca can buy him back this or next season and we would basically make hardly nay profit on him - certainly not a great one. besides that i'm struggling to see who he has bought that has seent their value shoot up amazingly - Besic - injury prone and unproven as of now - no one would pay much for him really, Lennon - at his age no profit to be made, Barry - ditto, McGeady will be lucky to get shut on a free, Galloway - would make a few million but no more on him

As for your point about him having more willigness to give youth a chance and bring players through from the academy - errrm who exactly has he brought through, the one academy player who in 3 years he has played in the league is Browning unless i am mistaken, Barkley was given his chance by Moyes, all the other younger players have been bought in already having had league experience with other teams before arriving, playing 4-5 players in a dead rubber game against Kras hardly counts as giving them a chance as they have been sent back the udner 21's or farmed off on loan soon as that game was done with.

As for our supposed great attacking football, it's few and far between - didn't se a sign of that against Cheslea for example - just saw a tremendous individual goal from Rom in a game we had created nothing in for 70 odd minutes, i for one don't find the majority of what we do min games exciting, having a free kick deep in the opponents half that ends up ten passes later being back with our goalie - isn't exciting, corners that hit the first man - ditto, don't find us endlessly passing it around the back 4 and midfield sideways and back very exciting, don't find the lack of tempo we have in the majority of games (especially at home) very exciting either, we are in short a relativley boring team who have a world class striker - take Lukaku out this team and we'd see just how entertaining we are without him. At times when everything clicks yeah w ecan look amazing and very exciting - but so can a huge amount of toher teams on their day when it all clicks - even under Dour Davey we had some performances that exhillarated

Is Martinez the new Satan - no that's silly, is he the new Messiah - no he is just a naughty Spaniard.

If you in your job told your boss that you would achieve certain targets, and not only did you fail to achieve those targets but you acheieved significantly lower results than the guy who did the job prior to you, and the net result was it cost your company about 6-10m per year for two years (difference between 5/6th and 11/13th), what you think would happen to your job security?
 
Yup a few innacuracies - at west brom is it was the managerial juggernaut of Steve Clarke not Pullis, he scored 17 not 16 goals - and errrm thats the innacuracies mate - so not that many really was their?

Lukaku at West Brom wa used brilliantly then is what your saying - manager realised he was still a young lad developing and wasn't ready for 90 minutes and got the best out of him, but trying to give Martinez full credit for developing him is daft - all the lad needed was to be getting played and any manager who put him on the pitch was going to look good, west brom showed what a talent he was and he was ready for this league - not Martinez

If you think Lukaku week in week out bullies defences your wrong mate, it's the most often criticised thing about him the fact he doesn't do that week in and week out as when he does he is unplayable

Alcaraz wa splayed because martinez didn't want to risk stones - but stones was fit enough for the bench mate - why was he on the bench if he couldn't play - or was that a mistake from martinez? - Distin was also fit but the manager had had a schoolyard falling out and had put him in the naughty corner so we where left with Alcaraz having to play and yeah he didn't have to criticise him after the game - but hewent out of his way to bloody well praise him mate and that was insulting to everyone who'd watched that game and saw him being terrible.

As for the game itself be didn't get beat mate w egot absolutely embaressed and it was up their with the wigan 3-0 loss under Moyes for that
Mad that because watch him for Belgium, it's the complete opposite to Everton. Agree with your other points though.
 
For two consecutive seasons the team is still making the same mistakes, the Manager clearly doesnt care about rectifying the errors. He clearly doesnt want to change his methods and has no intention of shaking up his staff.

He'll never change and for that alone he can go.

Thanks for the good players, thanks for bringing a style that when done correctly is brilliant to watch, but tra. We can do better than Roberto Martinez, he wont do better than Everton Football Club.
 

For me the 'one off' comments are a bit laughable. After the Lord Mayor's parade and all that. Shows he refuses to see reality.

But also his 'I'm trying to build a football club' comments also shows something else - a small club mentality on his part. We don't need to be built, we are already a big club thanks. He can say he's a winner all he likes, he isn't big enough for us judging by these remarks.

For all his posturing, I'm afraid it seems to me (lately) that he just doesn't see things the way everyone else does. For all his talk of changing to a winning mentality (admirable), he's fostering a losing one.
 
You do see the difference positionally on how moyes covered his full backs joining the attack? He had his center midfield drop and sit in front of center backs. When Martinez has his full backs going forward the center mid are up there with them passing the ball sideways. One mistake and teams break. Put a ball out wide. With space out wide our center backs have to cover leaving them split and space everywhere. I like attacking football not kamakazi football
Barry and McCarthy nearly always sit back. And Cleverley covers too when playing. Lennon as well.
 
I remember when Kone was playing horribly for weeks on end, and I came to the conclusion that Kone simply shouldnt be in the team therefore it was Roberto's fault (for picking him).... Now i think the same theory can hold true with Roberto... as this is the boards fault now and not Roberto's. We know what Roberto is as a manager, he is not going to change... therefore we should be angry at the board for keeping him, and not roberto i believe... this is a board issue imo
 
I agree entirely .

His verbosity and bluster usually mask his lack of ability to manage and adapt.

His interview after the Arsenal game seemed to be an acknowledgement by him that even he doesn't believe that he is able to turn things around.
 

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