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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
- Start date
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Sentinel
Player Valuation: £8m
I understand people want to see progress and I've maintained all along that is the barometer of success at a club the stature of Evertons. The board may not see it that way though. And none of us have a clear idea of the direction Moshiri wants to take the club, yet.
All I'm trying to suggest to you, that yes we know the league placing is disappointing and with the current squad/players are under achieving, granted. However you cannot seriously suggest that if we were to win the cup Martinez would be fired. Furthermore there would be a reasonable grounds to argue that he deserved another season based on winning a trophy. Winning a cup is progress, considering we've won nowt for twenty years.
Now the next step is the league. Targets could be set which if failed to materialize would result in dismissal. And I'm not talking about supporter targets here. I'm talking about from the board. And fundamentally this is why I believe that irrespective of our league placing, Martinez is fulfilling current targets. Hence why the calls for him to be sacked are ignored. That could soon change but we don't know.
All I'm trying to suggest to you, that yes we know the league placing is disappointing and with the current squad/players are under achieving, granted. However you cannot seriously suggest that if we were to win the cup Martinez would be fired. Furthermore there would be a reasonable grounds to argue that he deserved another season based on winning a trophy. Winning a cup is progress, considering we've won nowt for twenty years.
Now the next step is the league. Targets could be set which if failed to materialize would result in dismissal. And I'm not talking about supporter targets here. I'm talking about from the board. And fundamentally this is why I believe that irrespective of our league placing, Martinez is fulfilling current targets. Hence why the calls for him to be sacked are ignored. That could soon change but we don't know.
TheHumbleEgg
Player Valuation: £15m
A few folk mentioning their admiration of RM's 'philosophy' etc.
I'll be dead honest...I'm not even entirely sure what it is any more.
I'll be dead honest...I'm not even entirely sure what it is any more.
Over 50m lost in respect to prize money over the last 2 years.
If the Board has targets, hes utterly failed to achieve them.
He believes strongly in the almost kopite mantra of always the victim, its never his fault.
For people saying we have no patience can I ask how many years you would give a manager who is underachieving? He's had 1 good season and right now 2 bad, not even 8th/9th bad but we're talking 12/13th bad despite having no Europe and having the leagues 2nd top goalscorer and better players than a number of teams above us.
Martinez reminds me heavily of Paul Lambert at Villa, everyone could see he was out of his depth but Lerner kept him on and the rot Well and truly set in, we can't afford to give an underwhelming manager 6/7/8 seasons as it'll potentially take us back years in progress.
The key to this is Moshiri taking a foothold and not letting Kenwright still hold the power in the boardroom as Bills simply too loyal/blinkered to do the right thing and think as a ruthless businessman rather than as a friend.
Martinez reminds me heavily of Paul Lambert at Villa, everyone could see he was out of his depth but Lerner kept him on and the rot Well and truly set in, we can't afford to give an underwhelming manager 6/7/8 seasons as it'll potentially take us back years in progress.
The key to this is Moshiri taking a foothold and not letting Kenwright still hold the power in the boardroom as Bills simply too loyal/blinkered to do the right thing and think as a ruthless businessman rather than as a friend.
JonnyFitz
Player Valuation: £750k
Ref, luck, or Lukaku
Fans.
Sentinel
Player Valuation: £8m
Well you could argue that, conversely he purchased Lukaku for 30 million and is now worth 60. That he played Stones persistently hence now worth 30 million, Barkley?, so in the boards view does that make up for the lost revenue? Also Deulofeu bought for 4 million, worth now?
JonnyFitz
Player Valuation: £750k
MoutsGoat, it's your fault I forgot to mention the fans!!
royalblue66
Player Valuation: £70m
So it's better to have a manager that can wheel and deal ,and increase the sell on fee,than one that can win matches.
TheHumbleEgg
Player Valuation: £15m
Sentinel
Player Valuation: £8m
I'm not suggesting that, what I am suggesting is, let's a have a bit of balance here. If we are going to raise the negatives, let's talk about the positives too.
AndyC
Player Valuation: £70m
The difference though between Hibbo and El Bob is that Hibbo is/was first and foremost a right back who has/had limited desire to be an offensive player aka Baines.
Hibbo knows/knew what his strengths/limitations are/were whereas El Bob is trying to be a jack of all trades when he patently is only really suited to plotting offensively.
Hibbo is/was a realist, El Bob is an idealist.
And Hibbo is a better fisherman too
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
The original article is a good one. It is not a straightforward decision. I think the most telling point he makes, is that there are questions over the long term now, not just the short term.
After 3 years in charge you begin to get a glimpse of the sort of team the manager is looking to create. It may not be complete and there may be improvements, but you should get an idea. For me I think our defensive weakness is quite inherent to the manager. If it's not I would really love to know what he would do differently over the coming months to change that going forward. Is more money going to solve the problem?
For me I was happy to give him to x-mas last this season after last season. Last season was difficult but there were enough mitigating factors, injuries and Europe to get give him a chance. I wanted us to be top 8 and the question to be put to bed. I do really want Martinez to succeed and was certainly not waiting until xmas to start calling for him to be sacked.
I was nervous of our opening 10 fixtures, they were nightmarish. I had visions of 3-4 points and panic all round, especially after the Watford game. As it happens we actually did very well after 10 games. We were 8th I think. We had easy fixtures to come and I really thought we'd kick on. We weren't in he mix for the top 4 but we were within striking distance and that was good. The United home game was a disappointment but that was balanced by good results against Southampton, Spurs and what looked a good away point at Swansea.
The next games started well, we hammered Sunderland and Villa. I felt this was a sign of things to come. Unfortunately we threw away points against Norwich and Bournemouth. We show naivety against Stoke & Leicester and so by the x-mas period we were 10th. Out of the 12 points mentioned above we only got 2. With the full 12 we'd have been in the top 3/4. In the end thats were I think it all went wrong.
At that point I didn't want him sacked, we were just in the top 10 and still in a cup semi final. I agreed to kick the question down to the end of the season. I'd hoped we might win the League Cup or that we could show some consistency to get into the top 8. The league form has remained just as patchy. We are in a cup semi finals.
What do I want? Well some consistency really. I'd love us to win a cup don't get me wrong. I'd take the cup over consistency (going back on what I said really). But for me to truly believe in Martinez I want to see him being willing to be a little more pragmatic in the desire to be more consistent. To "walk before we can run" as it were. To accept that setting up to play as we did against Southampton away, or Chelsea at home, or City at home , or Stoke away is not a betrayal of his principles. They are pragmatic steps to help us arrive at his ideal vision.
Martinez is a contradiction as we have said. He's half genius half fool at times. He outwits a vibrant Chelsea side one week, to be completely outfoxed by a wounded Arsenal the next.
After 3 years in charge you begin to get a glimpse of the sort of team the manager is looking to create. It may not be complete and there may be improvements, but you should get an idea. For me I think our defensive weakness is quite inherent to the manager. If it's not I would really love to know what he would do differently over the coming months to change that going forward. Is more money going to solve the problem?
For me I was happy to give him to x-mas last this season after last season. Last season was difficult but there were enough mitigating factors, injuries and Europe to get give him a chance. I wanted us to be top 8 and the question to be put to bed. I do really want Martinez to succeed and was certainly not waiting until xmas to start calling for him to be sacked.
I was nervous of our opening 10 fixtures, they were nightmarish. I had visions of 3-4 points and panic all round, especially after the Watford game. As it happens we actually did very well after 10 games. We were 8th I think. We had easy fixtures to come and I really thought we'd kick on. We weren't in he mix for the top 4 but we were within striking distance and that was good. The United home game was a disappointment but that was balanced by good results against Southampton, Spurs and what looked a good away point at Swansea.
The next games started well, we hammered Sunderland and Villa. I felt this was a sign of things to come. Unfortunately we threw away points against Norwich and Bournemouth. We show naivety against Stoke & Leicester and so by the x-mas period we were 10th. Out of the 12 points mentioned above we only got 2. With the full 12 we'd have been in the top 3/4. In the end thats were I think it all went wrong.
At that point I didn't want him sacked, we were just in the top 10 and still in a cup semi final. I agreed to kick the question down to the end of the season. I'd hoped we might win the League Cup or that we could show some consistency to get into the top 8. The league form has remained just as patchy. We are in a cup semi finals.
What do I want? Well some consistency really. I'd love us to win a cup don't get me wrong. I'd take the cup over consistency (going back on what I said really). But for me to truly believe in Martinez I want to see him being willing to be a little more pragmatic in the desire to be more consistent. To "walk before we can run" as it were. To accept that setting up to play as we did against Southampton away, or Chelsea at home, or City at home , or Stoke away is not a betrayal of his principles. They are pragmatic steps to help us arrive at his ideal vision.
Martinez is a contradiction as we have said. He's half genius half fool at times. He outwits a vibrant Chelsea side one week, to be completely outfoxed by a wounded Arsenal the next.
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