Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Woolly Blue]

Disagree to an extent. Our attacking has been much improved year on year. I get the defence has been awful though. I guess patience is not useful in the instant gratification days we live in now.

Three years is a reasonable amount of time in to make a judgement on someone in any walk of life mate, and it'll be three years in a few months.

Unlike @The Esk, I don't judge Martinez on the fact that we're not competing for Champions League places. I can see the logic in that being a longer term objective as the squad is rebuilt, but I do judge Martinez as having failed to get us anywhere near a Europa League spot via our league position this season and last. This squad is more than capable of being in the mix for sixth, and missing it twice in succession suggests that something is not right at a managerial and coaching level.

Now plainly a cup win would get us into Europe, but we shouldn't have to be relying on that.

 

[roydo]

Would you not admit that he had improved us offensively since last season?

Why, with priorities now clearly in the GK and defence department, would you not back him to now improve and thus complete the final part of his rebuilding?

I would love it if he did.

But. The evidence as I see it is that he is incapable of building a consistent league performing side.

It is a shame, because he has many positives. But that stubborn resistance to seemingly not accepting that the ugly side of the game needs to be seen as important as the attacking side is his blind spot to me.

And the absolute infuriating thing is that, at times, he seems to have addressed it. Then, pop. Square one.

 

[Goat]

We havent improved, we are still losing to no marks at home.

We are still losing to no marks home and away.

For the 2nd season running we are looking over our shoulder instead of at the stars.

I cant see us winning another league game all season, theres a real danger we can go down.

 

[Sentinel]

This is a hypothetical, but consider it. Martinez record might easily look like this come May.

First season, 5th place, record premier league total.
2nd Season, 5th round of the Europa Cup was it? and 12th in the league.
3rd Season, One semi, and FA Cup win. Another season to forget in the league.

Now as I said it's hypothetical but does that record look that bad considering the last twenty years? Obviously a lot would depend on winning the cup. Now let me state, I don't think at the moment Martinez has the necessary experience, skill set, whatever you want to call it, to be a successful Premier League manager. However, if the hypothetical target is met. I think that's not a bad return, factoring in the positives and negatives of his tenure.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Desperately wanted Martinez to succeed. I love his footballing philosophy. After 3 years there's not much evidence though that he can succesfully implant that off field philosophy into our on field performances. For me it's the most frustrating Everton season ever since falling in love with this grand old team back in 1985. We're so damn close yet so far away because of Bobby's stubborness and the sometimes seemingly complete lack of tactical awerenes.

 

[roydo]

This is a hypothetical, but consider it. Martinez record might easily look like this come May.

First season, 5th place, record premier league total.
2nd Season, 5th round of the Europa Cup was it? and 12th in the league.
3rd Season, One semi, and FA Cup win. Another season to forget in the league.

Now as I said it's hypothetical but does that record look that bad considering the last twenty years? Obviously a lot would depend on winning the cup. Now let me state, I don't think at the moment Martinez has the necessary experience, skill set, whatever you want to call it, to be a successful Premier League manager. However, if the hypothetical target is met. I think that's not a bad return, factoring in the positives and negatives of his tenure.

It would look good, granted.

But it would not convince me that he has the ability to manage a top 4, 6, whatever, premier league football team.

Simply, because the evidence does not support that.

 

[DanEFC92]

This'll be yet another weekend without any points.

OUT.

 

[wearerich]

This is a hypothetical, but consider it. Martinez record might easily look like this come May.

First season, 5th place, record premier league total.
2nd Season, 5th round of the Europa Cup was it? and 12th in the league.
3rd Season, One semi, and FA Cup win. Another season to forget in the league.

Now as I said it's hypothetical but does that record look that bad considering the last twenty years? Obviously a lot would depend on winning the cup. Now let me state, I don't think at the moment Martinez has the necessary experience, skill set, whatever you want to call it, to be a successful Premier League manager. However, if the hypothetical target is met. I think that's not a bad return, factoring in the positives and negatives of his tenure.

Why are we talking about 20 years? He inherited a squad from Moyes that averaged around 7th in the league and were regulars in Europe. He's single-handedly put paid to that, two consecutive years in the bottom half despite having the 'best squad' in 25 years. He's taken us massively backwards and needs to go asap.

 

[JonnyFitz]

We'll never catch any fish with a whole in the net

 

[Goat]

This is a hypothetical, but consider it. Martinez record might easily look like this come May.

First season, 5th place, record premier league total.
2nd Season, 5th round of the Europa Cup was it? and 12th in the league.
3rd Season, One semi, and FA Cup win. Another season to forget in the league.

Now as I said it's hypothetical but does that record look that bad considering the last twenty years? Obviously a lot would depend on winning the cup. Now let me state, I don't think at the moment Martinez has the necessary experience, skill set, whatever you want to call it, to be a successful Premier League manager. However, if the hypothetical target is met. I think that's not a bad return, factoring in the positives and negatives of his tenure.

Worst home record of ANY Everton Manager in our entire history.
Only Everton Manager in history to exit both Cups in the first round in our entire history.

I would thank him for the FA Cup and remember my 2 trips to Wembley until I died, but I would still want him sacked, winning a cup with this group of players isnt even impressive, its the least we should expect, finishing 12th+ with this group of players, TWICE, should be a sackable offence tho.

 

[bluewally]

Worst home record of ANY Everton Manager in our entire history.
Only Everton Manager in history to exit both Cups in the first round in our entire history.

I would thank him for the FA Cup and remember my 2 trips to Wembley until I died, but I would still want him sacked, winning a cup with this group of players isnt even impressive, its the least we should expect, finishing 12th+ with this group of players, TWICE, should be a sackable offence tho.

You've really gone proper plotter now

 

[The Esk]

Would you not admit that he had improved us offensively since last season?

Why, with priorities now clearly in the GK and defence department, would you not back him to now improve and thus complete the final part of his rebuilding?

Undoubtedly, offensively we have improved and Lukaku is operating at a different level from a year ago. For example the first 15 minutes of the second half at Chelsea this season was as good as you could ever wish for.

I'm not saying Martinez does not have skills and strengths, however I am saying he does not have the full set of skills to regularly compete for a CL place.

I'd love him to succeed but I am being realistic, his deficiencies will not allow him to take us to the level we should be given current playing resources and even less suitable given the future investment programme in the squad.

Martinez is the managerial equivalent of a Tony Hibbert, a good pro, loyal and dedicated but lacking the full set of skills to go to the highest or even higher levels.

 

[catcherintherye]

The one thing you can bank on, as you well know, is that any funds handed over will buy quality.

Let's face it: we have a brand of football in place that can win matches and a defence committed to undoing all that. Sort the defence and GK out in the summer as well as he sorted the tempo of attacking last summer and we're in business.

It does yes. And I certainly want Martinez to succeed so I am not trying to stir. Do you think if given a lot of money he will be able to sort the defence? I really have my doubts.

Let's have this right. I admire his philosophy and big vision for the club. His outlook. The fact that he is trying to imprint a positive mindset based around pass and move. My worry is though he's an idealist and the practical realities may catch up with him. In the interim will he be prepared to set sided up to play how we did against Chelsea at home, as opposed to Arsenal at home a week later?

In many ways I would love him in a DIF role. Overseeing the academy, incomings and outgoings, strategic direction of the club and ethos on what we are trying to achieve. I am not sure his strength is in the day to day detail of managing a team though and we may be better served with someone else doing that? In a head coach type of role.

I will ask again though, do you think with more cash he will build a solid defence? And if so, what gives you that idea? I am not saying you are wrong but I am a bit devoid of reasons to have such confidence in him and I'd love to hear some reasons (from you or anybody else for that matter!) I want to buy into Martinez but my faith is certainly being tested!

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

15th with the prems 2nd highest scorer is in itself a sackable offence

...imagine though, finishing 14th...with the HIGHEST scorer in the division and no cup in the cupboard...

Then goin' 'y'know what...he needs more time, let's give him a big pot of dough, he deserves 'til Chrimbo, at least, 'cos he's SO badly onto something here...blah-blah-blah'

Just imagine that.

*shudder

 

[eternal_defiance]

Martinez is the managerial equivalent of a Tony Hibbert, a good pro, loyal and dedicated but lacking the full set of skills to go to the highest or even higher levels.

I would say he is the managerial equivalent of Jelavic. Was what we needed but those that predicted he would not repeat his early success ended up being correct and he needed removing.