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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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oldblue said:
I'd say so. So many other things going to be considered though from both perspectives. I think my main point would be that I've started to think a similar season won't do much damage to the club and may bring a lot of benefit. Obviously a lot of frustration is likely too. And I think he'd walk if that was the case.
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Please elaborate on "similar season won't do much damage to the club"
 
davek said:
Many of those claim about Moyes are true. But it doesn't detract from what Martinez has done.

You see that ^^^ is the type of nuanced approach out of the reach of those attacking Martinez. That's why I can never take the attacks seriously. If posters were to say "yeah, he's done this well and that well, but overall there are some fundamental problems etc etc" then they'd be taken seriously by right minded people.
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Firstly, all of those claims about Moyes are true, the only one that is open to question is who has been better in the transfer market, but as I explained later on, Baines, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Peinaar, Arteta, Mirallas, Fellaini (sold at a profit) all good buys by Moyes and some have had fantastic careers at Everton.

as for your second point, I've already spoken about Martinez, but what has he actually achieved yet?

He has got us scoring more goals, he has got us conceding more goals. He has had one good season to date in 3 and as you have rightly pointed out got 72 points and was unlucky not to get a CL spot. 2 semi finals, one of which he blew spectacularly but also had a bit of bad luck wi the sterling incident and the deflected goal.

We went to Kiev with a lead in the EL last season and we got embarrassed and thrashed.

Is he a decent manager? Yes. Is he anything more than that, not really. The problem you have is that you build him up too much and do exactly what you accuse everybody else of and that is over sensationalising him and his abilities.

He is decent, that is all. Did I want him when Moyes left? Yes, and I was very pleased when he had a great first season and we then signed Lukaku on a permanent and looked like we were going places. Since then we have gone backwards.
 
oldblue said:
One where results aren't consistent but we show signs of having good quality in the squad and younger players developing
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The problem with that is if results don't improve the best players will leave (if not this summer). The resultant = a grim position offensively, and an even worse position than we already are defensively. I'm my own opinion, another season like this one is not an option.
 

Groucho said:
In an ideal world we need an 'inbetween' of Moyes & Martinez. Good at the back, stingey with possession, ace going forward and great on the break.

Does he exist? Probably - who is he?
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The list is quite long actually...need a will to stop this nonsense first...
 
Zatara said:
Precisely. Its just the difference between a visionary (someone with a long term plan) and a results based manager (allardyce/pulis/mourinho) who plans year to year.

Striking comparisons with Cruyff, Wenger and Martinez actually. Personally i think the time to develop something like this is worth it.

If it fails or stagnates then you bring in someone to take the side to the next level.

Similar to Klopp and Tuchel i guess
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Good entertainment...
 
Groucho said:
As much as I think he's not up to it, if he improved then I'd be happy with him staying.

I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. But how long do we give him to improve?
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I genuinely feel that's what some of the pro-RM chaps & chapesses assume sometimes. Personally, I made my mind up a while ago with him...not because I'm content with just 'shipping out', nor do I want us to become 'one of them clubs' who dispose of at will...nah...I got to this because genuinely, hand on heart, I just don't think he's up to it long term, and there's nothing in the locker that tells me going to become that either. I wish I felt differently but I don't. That said, happy to be proved wrong like...

But as I mentioned yesterday I think - and it's odd - but I've never felt so disconnected to one of our managers as I do with him.
 
JonnyFitz said:
The problem with that is if results don't improve the best players will leave (if not this summer). The resultant = a grim position offensively, and an even worse position than we already are defensively. I'm my own opinion, another season like this one is not an option.
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I don't see anyone leaving to be honest. Certainly not for anything other than a huge figure.
But on that note another season like this is partly up to players who won't want to see their reputations slip. Look at Rom against Chelsea, that was nothing to do with systems or manager's tactics and everything to do with a player suddenly taking complete responsibility for what's happening on the pitch. I'm pretty convinced we'll see more of that and there'll be no need to worry about it season like this.
Even then I'm not sure we'll still see him here at the end of it. Genuinely believe it's gonna be more a case of who else is available.
 

TheHumbleEgg said:
I genuinely feel that's what some of the pro-RM chaps & chapesses assume sometimes. Personally, I made my mind up a while ago with him...not because I'm content with just 'shipping out', nor do I want us to become 'one of them clubs' who dispose of at will...nah...I got to this because genuinely, hand on heart, I just don't think he's up to it long term, and there's nothing in the locker that tells me going to become that either. I wish I felt differently but I don't. That said, happy to be proved wrong like...

But as I mentioned yesterday I think - and it's odd - but I've never felt so disconnected to one of our managers as I do with him.
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The above is my exact disposition with Martinez, I feel sad that it isn't working out for him, but my concern is Everton
 
Always 100 said:
Just because Moyes got 11 seasons to win F'all doesn't mean the next manager needs the same time period(or longer) to win F'all. Sick of EFC making do with second best.
Regardless of the cup outcome I don't think he's the man for us.
Players hold all the power,if they have lost confidence in the manager(he's gone IMO). Players get managers sacked by protesting on the pitch,not trying/leaking goals etc. Bad results/league position=new manager IMO.
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...yes, I noticed them all not trying against Chelsea when they turned them over and were hugging Martinez afterward.

Fantasy island stuff this.
 

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