Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[tirion]

As soon as we can announce it, a new GK is a must for RM. Once we hear that we know where we stand, I suppose. An understanding with Beogovic looks likely.

Dear God, where have you got that from, idle chatter standing on picket lines?

 

[oldblue]

Pah! More lame avoidance tactics from someone who has been found out ... `again` ... yawn
were is davek at least he could support his views with common sense and wit

Totally agree with this at least

 

[oldblue]

I honestly can't see that it is more realistic, but I can accept there is a chance. It still wouldn't appease me though.

Fair enough but surely this means you've got enough debating points without imagined scenarios

 

[McBain]

Cruyff was a loved former player but they still wanted him out...

For Martinez yes its taken him a year longer in different times when almost a full team still needs to be jettissoned aftet that he will over overhauled an entire squad in 3 years. Pretty incredible.

It's really not rocket science given their ages now though, is it?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/aug/07/premier-league-preview-everton

Cahill's role behind Nikica Jelavic is likely to be taken by Naismith as the Scotland international, still nursing his way back to full fitness following a cruciate ligament injury, reprises a partnership that flourished at Ibrox. Should Jack Rodwell or Ross Barkley realise their potential on a consistent basis, Moyes will have the option of fielding Naismith wide with a homegrown talent in the centre. And the manager will need Rodwell, Barkley and Séamus Coleman to develop from promising youngsters into established assets. A series of hamstring injuries ruined last year for Rodwell while Barkley, after a promising start, was taken out of the first team picture by Moyes in order to further his education with regular youth and reserve team football. The manager's calculated move on the commanding 18-year-old midfielder is scheduled to pay dividends this season.

The next generation are required to step up as, beyond a settled, productive first-team unit, the squad lacks the depth to cover for injuries to key players. Jelavic proved an inspired signing for £5m from Rangers in January and his 11 goals in 13 starts confirmed Moyes's repeated assertion of recent summers; that the team is only a prolific marksman short of a European return. The comprehensive 3-1 defeat of a Newcastle United team that had an outside chance of the Champions League on the final day of last season reinforced that point.

We came 6th that year.

 

[Dymak]

The objective under Moyes during the last half of his tenure was always Champions League qualification, he never quite achieved it, but our 6th to 8th placed finishes meant we were often in the reckoning right throughout the season until around April. This was all done whilst we had the lowest net spend in the league. Yet Moyes was still castigated for only ever achieving the '7th placed trophy'. It seems that expectations have decreased under Martinez, or they certainly have amongst a particular cohort of Evertonians, some of which were ironically castigating Moyes for his 7th placed trophies.

The playing field has now been levelled, we now have massive net spends, but our performance has decreased and we are being overtaken by the likes of Stoke and Southampton. Even Stoke fans have objectives and expectations of finishing in the top half of the league these days, but applying the same expectations to a grand old club like Everton makes you a Geordie apparently.

We have regressed under Martinez to a point where we are nowhere near being the best of the rest, our home form is relegation standard and the opposition no longer fears coming to Goodison. We now have the ability to attract managers of a far superior quality to Martinez, so I have absolutely no idea why people want to stick with an inferior manager who is taking us backwards, you must be masochists or something.

 

[whiteshadow]

You may not have all the facts to hand.

I was asking a question if we were to lose our next game would we be 15th, a poster very kindly replied saying
it was a possibility. The forum and thread are here for open discussion both positive and negative do you have a problem
with that? if so spend more time on your playstation.

Yes I am in the martinez out camp and have been since last season, no dig at anyone just another fact that you are obviously
uncomfortable with.

never expected to be relying on others games and results to be honest, 15th is shocking .....

I don't have any issue with you wanting him out. I just think talking like we're in 15th place when we're not and we have games in hand is jumping the gun.

I totally understand why a lot of people want him out, I just think people end up looking a bit silly when they end up knocking a manager for a league position we're not in, knocking a manager because he bought a player who's played 26 mins and hasn't set the world alight (not that you have, just referencing some posters in the niasse thread), etc.

Davek is just as bad, ignoring league form, cos finishing anywhere from 5th to 17th means nothing apparently and is made up by 2 decent cup runs.

I've got strong doubts that RM will sort out our defence, I've tried being as positive as I can because I can see what he's trying to do and I believe in his vision just I'm not sure he's got the ability and leadership skills to pull it off. Being prepared to let him have another season doesn't mean I believe in him 100%. If he went on to win countless trophies etc I wouldn't go on about how I always knew he was going to, I'd say I was really worried about him at this point in time, which I am.

Anyway, my point is peoples arguments come across way better, regardless of wether they're pro or anti RM when they don't try adding spin and conjecture to them.

 

[Magus]

Fair enough but surely this means you've got enough debating points without imagined scenarios

I'm not sure I have imagined any scenarios- I have merely commented upon points raised in earlier posts.

My position is based on a prolonged period of inconsistency, appalling home record and often dire football.

 

[Zatara]

It's not even thinking we should be in the top 4, it's the total lack of fight shown for the majority for me. A lot of blues would like to see us go out there and chase down and pressure teams, a bit of work ethic, something these players have none of.

The man keeps telling us about this "great" squad he has at his disposal, yet he can't get them to work, so I suppose bottom half finishes are sound.

He's said that since he walked in the door though. Hes motivating the players and trying to create harmony within the squad...which will be entirely changed other than 3-5 players in the summer from the "phenomenal" squad he inherited...

Just watching perfomances since robles went into goal you can see visually a massive change in defence and confidence throughout the team. However Martinez hasnt brought in defenders yet bar mori and galloway and needs to add in a GK and LW which have already been mentioned.

Until he does this in the summer then may as well wait and see i he wins the cup...

 

[oldblue]

I'm not sure I have imagined any scenarios- I have merely commented upon points raised in earlier posts.

My position is based on a prolonged period of inconsistency, appalling home record and often dire football.

Being in 15th is imagined at the moment

 

[Zatara]

It's really not rocket science given their ages now though, is it?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/aug/07/premier-league-preview-everton



We came 6th that year.

Thats the point though isnt it?

Martinez is in the process of entirely chnging the squad and playing style...not an overnight project.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

He's said that since he walked in the door though. Hes motivating the players and trying to create harmony within the squad...which will be entirely changed other than 3-5 players in the summer from the "phenomenal" squad he inherited...

Just watching perfomances since robles went into goal you can see visually a massive change in defence and confidence throughout the team. However Martinez hasnt brought in defenders yet bar mori and galloway and needs to add in a GK and LW which have already been mentioned.

Until he does this in the summer then may as well wait and see i he wins the cup...

Yep.

*Star striker talking about moving on / defensive starlet a shadow of what he was.

Sound.

And there was ZERO confidence about the entire side V the ARSE.

 

[eddy]

Totally agree with this at least

More avoidance, no counter arguments to back up your rhetoric

funny to watch the cheap cards of `desperation` come out though all very easy to see through ... epic fail !!!

The below explains people like you better than I ever could ...


Nine times out of ten, an argument ends with each of the contestants more firmly convinced than ever that he is absolutely right.

You can’t win an argument. You can’t because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. And -

"A man convinced against his will

"Is of the same opinion still."

Or the shortened version i like ..... `old blue = epic fail`

coyb

 

[Zatara]

The objective under Moyes during the last half of his tenure was always Champions League qualification, he never quite achieved it, but our 6th to 8th placed finishes meant we were often in the reckoning right throughout the season until around April. This was all done whilst we had the lowest net spend in the league. Yet Moyes was still castigated for only ever achieving the '7th placed trophy'. It seems that expectations have decreased under Martinez, or they certainly have amongst a particular cohort of Evertonians, some of which were ironically castigating Moyes for his 7th placed trophies.

The playing field has now been levelled, we now have massive net spends, but our performance has decreased and we are being overtaken by the likes of Stoke and Southampton. Even Stoke fans have objectives and expectations of finishing in the top half of the league these days, but applying the same expectations to a grand old club like Everton makes you a Geordie apparently.

We have regressed under Martinez to a point where we are nowhere near being the best of the rest, our home form is relegation standard and the opposition no longer fears coming to Goodison. We now have the ability to attract managers of a far superior quality to Martinez, so I have absolutely no idea why people want to stick with an inferior manager who is taking us backwards, you must be masochists or something.

"We now have massive net spends"

Compared to who exactly?

Also, of these "massive net spends" how many players has this been spread over? As for my mind the entire squad needed an overhaul.

 

[Zatara]

Yep.

*Star striker talking about moving on / defensive starlet a shadow of what he was.

Sound.

And there was ZERO confidence about the entire side V the ARSE.

Star striker whose run to martinez hugging him after chelsea game and who before chelsea game was quoted in the press saying how much he was looking forward to playing for us next season?

That one?

Or a youn lad going through his 1st drop in form in his career who was being raved about till then?

That one?

 

[Greek Fisherman]

Hmm...