Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[whiteshadow]

I think you are missing the point.

The fact that there is a very realistic chance of dropping to 15th place is already unacceptable to the majority of fans posting in this thread, based on the talent at his disposal.

Your position is based on hope and optimism rather than the harsh reality of our current level.

It's all conjecture and we have games in hand. Where we are after 38 games is what I'll judge him on, there's not point judging league position, in a congested table from week to week when you have 1\2 games in hand.

 

[oldblue]

More avoidance, no counter arguments to back up your rhetoric

funny to watch the cheap cards of `desperation` come out though all very easy to see through ... epic fail !!!

The below explains people like you better than I ever could ...


Nine times out of ten, an argument ends with each of the contestants more firmly convinced than ever that he is absolutely right.

You can’t win an argument. You can’t because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. And -

"A man convinced against his will

"Is of the same opinion still."

Or the shortened version i like ..... `old blue = epic fail`

coyb

You've made a counter point to someone whose just agreed with you. That's diplomacy for you

 

[eddy]

I don't have any issue with you wanting him out. I just think talking like we're in 15th place when we're not and we have games in hand is jumping the gun.

I totally understand why a lot of people want him out, I just think people end up looking a bit silly when they end up knocking a manager for a league position we're not in, knocking a manager because he bought a player who's played 26 mins and hasn't set the world alight (not that you have, just referencing some posters in the niasse thread), etc.

Davek is just as bad, ignoring league form, cos finishing anywhere from 5th to 17th means nothing apparently and is made up by 2 decent cup runs.

I've got strong doubts that RM will sort out our defence, I've tried being as positive as I can because I can see what he's trying to do and I believe in his vision just I'm not sure he's got the ability and leadership skills to pull it off. Being prepared to let him have another season doesn't mean I believe in him 100%. If he went on to win countless trophies etc I wouldn't go on about how I always knew he was going to, I'd say I was really worried about him at this point in time, which I am.

Anyway, my point is peoples arguments come across way better, regardless of wether they're pro or anti RM when they don't try adding spin and conjecture to them.

Old blue should take the time to read the above, I can see through his spin.

I am knocking the manager for being 12th, 15th is something that may or may not happen but I think we are entitled to discuss it amongst
ourselves. I take your point about games in hand and yes, I may or may not be jumping the gun

I think Niasse will come good I have always thought that, and applauded some of Martinez`s signings
I agree the defence is our problem area, like you Martinez worries me and I think we can do better

 

[Zatara]

Hmm...

Is this in reference to any recent article or just this whopper mouthing off again?

 

[McBain]

Thats the point though isnt it?

Martinez is in the process of entirely chnging the squad and playing style...not an overnight project.

Of course not, but look at the evolution of Cruyffs side

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-barcelona/1990/2/

You've got a solid back four and a World class goalie. And he had Gary Lineker up front in '88. Throw in Stoichkov, Laudrup and Koeman between '88 and '90 and you've introduced the Worlds best players into spine into the team, at that time. Thats a recipe for success.

 

[oldblue]

Old blue should take the time to read the above, I can see through his spin.

I am knocking the manager for being 12th, 15th is something that may or may not happen but I think we are entitled to discuss it amongst
ourselves. I take your point about games in hand and yes, I may or may not be jumping the gun

I think Niasse will come good I have always thought that, and applauded some of Martinez`s signings
I agree the defence is our problem area, like you Martinez worries me and I think we can do better

Read it. Liked it. And your last paragraph is probably where most of us are at. Even those of us branded as naive masochists.

 

[Dymak]

"We now have massive net spends"

Compared to who exactly?

Also, of these "massive net spends" how many players has this been spread over? As for my mind the entire squad needed an overhaul.

Massive net spends compared to Moyes tenure when we were bottom of the net spend league table. Massive net spends when compared to most of the premier league I would imagine, we are certainly not at the bottom of the league any more, and it would be no surprise to see us within the top half. Massive net spends compared to 85% of European clubs.

Martinez' money has been spent on plenty of players; Lukaku, McCarthy, Mori, Besic, Niasse, Kone, McGeady, Robles, Barry. There's nine players for you, and I'm not even going to include the absolute abomination of Alcaraz.

I dread a squad overhaul with Martinez at the helm, it will be pointless. You can change the personnel but his tactics are totally mental, and we are always going to be vulnerable when the defence is all over the place. He has done enough damage already, and he needs to go before he does any more. Oh how we laughed at David James prediction when Martinez took over.

 

[1966efc]

Is this in reference to any recent article or just this whopper mouthing off again?

A reasonably well respected commentator who, perhaps, has an insight you don't care to agree with?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Oh how we laughed at David James prediction when Martinez took over.

Aye. Grim as it is.

 

[eddy]

You've made a counter point to someone whose just agreed with you. That's diplomacy for you

eddy said: ↑
Pah! More lame avoidance tactics from someone who has been found out ... `again` ... yawn
were is davek at least he could support his views with common sense and wit
Totally agree with this at least

oldblue, 29 minutes ago Report
#747 Like + Quote Reply



Really? Care to point out which part of my post you agreed with ?

More avoidance tactics exposed each time you post ....

 

[eddy]

Read it. Liked it. And your last paragraph is probably where most of us are at. Even those of us branded as naive masochists.

There you go again `naive masochists` your terminology not mine ............

 

[DrEFC]

I think its the short term naiveity of the Martinez Out types that is an "Epic Fail".

Band wagon jumping, self entitled Geordie-esque views...

How long since we last won a trophy or were challenging at the top? Decades....

Yet people think we should be in cup finals and top 4.

Bizarre.

Literally no one said that, peoply expect us to challenge for the european spots as thats what we have been doing. You're using hyperbole to protect the manager. Then insulting the fans. Least actually come up with points to counter peoples concerns. Geordies indeed. FFS they've seen their team relegated after a series of poor managerial appointments, despite a spending that dwarfs ours. I'd be friggin mad too.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Remember when martinez said he wanted our players playing well enough so they can go to the world cup two years ago?

I reckon he's not so keen on the euros, meself.

 

[whiteshadow]

Old blue should take the time to read the above, I can see through his spin.

I am knocking the manager for being 12th, 15th is something that may or may not happen but I think we are entitled to discuss it amongst
ourselves. I take your point about games in hand and yes, I may or may not be jumping the gun

I think Niasse will come good I have always thought that, and applauded some of Martinez`s signings
I agree the defence is our problem area, like you Martinez worries me and I think we can do better

12th is really poor considering how many goals Lukaku scores. All RM had to do really was make our team solid as a unit and Del + Barkley + Lukaku would have got us enough goals just through their individual talent but I think he's convinced the attacking football is what will get us in the top 4 over the long term.

We may end up in 15th, our form is so unpredictable, so people should talk about the possibility but hopefully we won't drop that low.

I'm just really glad I'm not in Moshiri's position because I don't know what call I'd make if I was him. I guess a lot will depend on what quality of managers are available come the end of the season and if RM shows enough to convince him he'll get the team producing results next season in the remaining games of this one.

 

[oldblue]

There you go again `naive masochists` your terminology not mine ............

I think both have been used. One by you and the other elsewhere quite recently.
Just a bit of an attempt to co opt them