I accept your apology for your point being smashed into smithereens.
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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
- Start date
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I don't think they wanted to really, I think they thought I was a wind up like a lot of profiles on here.
What do you think about the Moyes v Martinez debate regarding transfers?
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
No he hasn't.
Moyes biggest buy was Fellaini, we made a profit on him, same as we will Lukaku who is Martinez biggest buy. Only difference is that fees have gone up massively due to the over inflated market thanks to billionaires and sky money aplenty.
Moyes bought Coleman and Stones, Roberto's other 2 potential massive windfalls. He even got Naismith on a free, 8m back for him thank you very much Delia Smith! Oviedo at 2.5m, etc etc
Who could we sell that Roberto has bought for a huge profit apart from Lukaku? At the moment nobody, Besic, Del are still to show anything more than promise. Lennon wouldn't go for much more than we bought him for unless he shows consistency over a long period, Mori has potential and has done reasonable well so far, the same could be said of McCarthy. Barry carries no market value at all.
Weird thing is I know you are on the fish but I can't help replying ha
sigh...
we don't know what deulofeu and besic will be worth in a few years..your not comparing like with like
True they might, but Davek is telling em Martinez is better now and I'm telling him why he isn't at this moment in time.
Dymak
Player Valuation: £40m
If you say so. I just couldn't be arsed going through yet another comparison regarding Martinez and Moyes respective starting points. But I guess I will it do it again one last time.
Martinez was immediately given a budget and a half and was attracting players to a club that had spent most of the last 10 years challenging for European qualification, a period when new signings were signing contracts worth over 50k a week. Moyes first few years were somewhat different, the club had been fighting relegation for 10 years, and couldn't offer massive wages.
ianefc
Player Valuation: £70m
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
glad you have given up on the argument and moving onto grammer and profile pics
ianefc
Player Valuation: £70m
I don't post on here much and I've been saving up so this is going to be a long post which most of you won't read.
I started supporting Everton in 1996. In hindsight, it was a terrible time to become an Evertonian - our glory days behind us and nothing but years and years of relegation-fighting drudgery on the horizon. In my 20 years as an Everton fan, I've never been as optimistic for the future as I am now.
Here are my reasons:
1) The truth about Roberto Martinez (so far) is that his Everton teams produce inconsistent results. With a few notable exceptions, the performances have been consistently good, the results, however, have not reflected that. We have lost many games this season after absolutely dominating the opposition and then throwing the game away/losing to a bad refereeing decision etc. I believe that in the medium-term, a young team which produces good performances will start to mature and convert them into good results.
2) I don't think Moyes' league finishes should be compared directly with Martinez because they had different jobs and different upsides. Moyes' job was to stabilise the club and produce consistent results on a small budget. He did that: he produced average results using nondescript, boring tactics and did it consistently. Under Moyes we were consistently mediocre and you knew we were never going to progress beyond the 7th place trophy.
RM's job is to rebuild the squad and produce a team capable of going beyond anything Moyes ever achieved. RM has had to phase out ageing Moyes workhorse-type players who could be relied on to consistently produce 6 out of 10 performances every week. He has replaced them with young players who have been given responsibilities and roles to grow into. Ross Barkley and John Stones are prime examples of players with massive roles in the team whose youth-induced inconsistency has sometimes affected team performances and results.
Overall, my view of RM's rebuilding job is that he is doing exceptionally well. Our squad value has increased massively, our average age, particularly of key players, has been reduced and the type of football we play is a pleasure to watch. This has been reflected in ever-growing attendances, which is staggering when you take into account disappointing results at home.
3) With the exception of Arouna Kone, RM's transfer activity has been spectacularly good so far. He brought it several expensive young players (Lukaku, McCarthy, Funes Mori) who have been worth every penny and augmented those signings with several low-cost gems like Barry, Lennon, Gerry etc. Alcaraz and McGeady were notable "misses" but cost very little and are merely the exception that proves the rule.
He is well-placed to make further key additions to the squad in the summer to address problem areas (GK, LW).
4) For the first time in my lifetime, we have the prospect of the Everton manager having significant funds to spend. Given RM's astute transfer policy so far, I believe the future is very bright.
5) I fully understand the disappointment with our home form. In many ways, the disappointment is greater because the quality of our football has been so good and the defeats have come through throwing away leads rather than simply being outplayed by better teams. I see these results as growing pains and believe RM will turn it around.
6) Even if I am wrong, given that RM doesn't waste money, even if he were to be sacked, we would be left with a very strong squad that the next manager can progress with. It's win-win for the club.
I started supporting Everton in 1996. In hindsight, it was a terrible time to become an Evertonian - our glory days behind us and nothing but years and years of relegation-fighting drudgery on the horizon. In my 20 years as an Everton fan, I've never been as optimistic for the future as I am now.
Here are my reasons:
1) The truth about Roberto Martinez (so far) is that his Everton teams produce inconsistent results. With a few notable exceptions, the performances have been consistently good, the results, however, have not reflected that. We have lost many games this season after absolutely dominating the opposition and then throwing the game away/losing to a bad refereeing decision etc. I believe that in the medium-term, a young team which produces good performances will start to mature and convert them into good results.
2) I don't think Moyes' league finishes should be compared directly with Martinez because they had different jobs and different upsides. Moyes' job was to stabilise the club and produce consistent results on a small budget. He did that: he produced average results using nondescript, boring tactics and did it consistently. Under Moyes we were consistently mediocre and you knew we were never going to progress beyond the 7th place trophy.
RM's job is to rebuild the squad and produce a team capable of going beyond anything Moyes ever achieved. RM has had to phase out ageing Moyes workhorse-type players who could be relied on to consistently produce 6 out of 10 performances every week. He has replaced them with young players who have been given responsibilities and roles to grow into. Ross Barkley and John Stones are prime examples of players with massive roles in the team whose youth-induced inconsistency has sometimes affected team performances and results.
Overall, my view of RM's rebuilding job is that he is doing exceptionally well. Our squad value has increased massively, our average age, particularly of key players, has been reduced and the type of football we play is a pleasure to watch. This has been reflected in ever-growing attendances, which is staggering when you take into account disappointing results at home.
3) With the exception of Arouna Kone, RM's transfer activity has been spectacularly good so far. He brought it several expensive young players (Lukaku, McCarthy, Funes Mori) who have been worth every penny and augmented those signings with several low-cost gems like Barry, Lennon, Gerry etc. Alcaraz and McGeady were notable "misses" but cost very little and are merely the exception that proves the rule.
He is well-placed to make further key additions to the squad in the summer to address problem areas (GK, LW).
4) For the first time in my lifetime, we have the prospect of the Everton manager having significant funds to spend. Given RM's astute transfer policy so far, I believe the future is very bright.
5) I fully understand the disappointment with our home form. In many ways, the disappointment is greater because the quality of our football has been so good and the defeats have come through throwing away leads rather than simply being outplayed by better teams. I see these results as growing pains and believe RM will turn it around.
6) Even if I am wrong, given that RM doesn't waste money, even if he were to be sacked, we would be left with a very strong squad that the next manager can progress with. It's win-win for the club.
No he hasn't.
Moyes biggest buy was Fellaini, we made a profit on him, same as we will Lukaku who is Martinez biggest buy. Only difference is that fees have gone up massively due to the over inflated market thanks to billionaires and sky money aplenty.
Moyes bought Coleman and Stones, Roberto's other 2 potential massive windfalls. He even got Naismith on a free, 8m back for him thank you very much Delia Smith! Oviedo at 2.5m, etc etc
Who could we sell that Roberto has bought for a huge profit apart from Lukaku? At the moment nobody, Besic, Del are still to show anything more than promise. Lennon wouldn't go for much more than we bought him for unless he shows consistency over a long period, Mori has potential and has done reasonable well so far, the same could be said of McCarthy. Barry carries no market value at all.
Weird thing is I know you are on the fish but I can't help replying ha
Edit: I actually forgot about Lescott! Nearly 20m profit after Moyes made a proper player out of him.
Naismith under Moyes, absolutely crap, Naismith under Martinez, best football of his career, maybe Martinez gets the credit for getting the £8m for Naismith, because even though Moyes got him on a free, he was that crap he would have had to give him away for free as well.
UpperLeftBlue
Player Valuation: £1m
Anyone who thinks Martinez is better in the transfer market than was Moyes needs their heads checked.
You see that I can accept, Martinez got a better tune out of him.
However Moyes arguably got a better tune out of Mirallas, so we can call that one a draw
The debate however was about transfers and Moyes at this point in time wipes the floor with him.
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
What's the fella what plays Frasier Crane got to do with it?
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