Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[ilikecheese]

People feel as tho they need to attack Moyes in order to make El Fraudo seem better.

The facts are quite simple, both managers did some amazing work in the transfer windows, both signed outstanding players for good money and both built a great squad.

Moyes managed to get us 5 Semi Finals and a final, CL football and kept us ticking over from 4th to 8th.
Martinez has managed 2 Semi Finals and kept us ticking over from 5th to 12th.

I only want to talk about FACTS.

Let's not forget 17th and 11th in his first four seasons. Patience was once a virtue with this club...seems we won't be havin that any longer.

 

[Zatara]

I don't post on here much and I've been saving up so this is going to be a long post which most of you won't read.

I started supporting Everton in 1996. In hindsight, it was a terrible time to become an Evertonian - our glory days behind us and nothing but years and years of relegation-fighting drudgery on the horizon. In my 20 years as an Everton fan, I've never been as optimistic for the future as I am now.

Here are my reasons:

1) The truth about Roberto Martinez (so far) is that his Everton teams produce inconsistent results. With a few notable exceptions, the performances have been consistently good, the results, however, have not reflected that. We have lost many games this season after absolutely dominating the opposition and then throwing the game away/losing to a bad refereeing decision etc. I believe that in the medium-term, a young team which produces good performances will start to mature and convert them into good results.

2) I don't think Moyes' league finishes should be compared directly with Martinez because they had different jobs and different upsides. Moyes' job was to stabilise the club and produce consistent results on a small budget. He did that: he produced average results using nondescript, boring tactics and did it consistently. Under Moyes we were consistently mediocre and you knew we were never going to progress beyond the 7th place trophy.

RM's job is to rebuild the squad and produce a team capable of going beyond anything Moyes ever achieved. RM has had to phase out ageing Moyes workhorse-type players who could be relied on to consistently produce 6 out of 10 performances every week. He has replaced them with young players who have been given responsibilities and roles to grow into. Ross Barkley and John Stones are prime examples of players with massive roles in the team whose youth-induced inconsistency has sometimes affected team performances and results.

Overall, my view of RM's rebuilding job is that he is doing exceptionally well. Our squad value has increased massively, our average age, particularly of key players, has been reduced and the type of football we play is a pleasure to watch. This has been reflected in ever-growing attendances, which is staggering when you take into account disappointing results at home.

3) With the exception of Arouna Kone, RM's transfer activity has been spectacularly good so far. He brought it several expensive young players (Lukaku, McCarthy, Funes Mori) who have been worth every penny and augmented those signings with several low-cost gems like Barry, Lennon, Gerry etc. Alcaraz and McGeady were notable "misses" but cost very little and are merely the exception that proves the rule.

He is well-placed to make further key additions to the squad in the summer to address problem areas (GK, LW).

4) For the first time in my lifetime, we have the prospect of the Everton manager having significant funds to spend. Given RM's astute transfer policy so far, I believe the future is very bright.

5) I fully understand the disappointment with our home form. In many ways, the disappointment is greater because the quality of our football has been so good and the defeats have come through throwing away leads rather than simply being outplayed by better teams. I see these results as growing pains and believe RM will turn it around.

6) Even if I am wrong, given that RM doesn't waste money, even if he were to be sacked, we would be left with a very strong squad that the next manager can progress with. It's win-win for the club.

Pretty much all ive been trying to say in a concise and well written post!

 

[ilikecheese]

Anyone who thinks Martinez is better in the transfer market than was Moyes needs their heads checked.

He's at least on par based on a small three year window. Done some excellent biz...just as Moyes did over 11 years.

 

[Zatara]

No, not if the team has already a solid core, introducing kids and new players should be a steady and easy process that doesn't effect results. Take who you used for an example Alex Ferguson at United, or most good sides they don't torpedo the team successive complete failures of league finishes when blooding a few youngsters to an already relatively successful team .

Thier not exactly bunch of 16 year year olds out there either but thats a different argument.

It's just another lame excuse for his bad tactics to add o the pile.

Im nof mentioning his tactics, merely that the squad is being developed and developing well.

Martinez didnt really have a solid core of quality dd he other than the defence which isnt able to play the way ee need them to under his system...

In my opinion hes built from the front and now will turn to the back.

 

[ilikecheese]

You see that I can accept, Martinez got a better tune out of him.

However Moyes arguably got a better tune out of Mirallas, so we can call that one a draw

The debate however was about transfers and Moyes at this point in time wipes the floor with him.

Martinez will never be blamed for Mirallas being a pouty little continental Belgian bish in my eyes. Primadonna come to mind with him.

 

[Zatara]

I'm sure Moyes signed Stones ?????????????

He was only signed as all moyes attacking targets were taken...moyes said so himself.

also, it was a scout pushing hard for the deal...martinez was in before us.

also look at how martinez has played them every game ....moyes never did that.

 

[Goat]

Let's not forget 17th and 11th in his first four seasons. Patience was once a virtue with this club...seems we won't be havin that any longer.

5th, 11th, 12th.

 

[ilikecheese]

5th, 11th, 12th.

Yeah...both finding their way early on...guess you don't have the stomach (something rarely said round here) for it.

 

[ilikecheese]

He was only signed as all moyes attacking targets were taken...moyes said so himself.

also, it was a scout pushing hard for the deal...martinez was in before us.

also look at how martinez has played them every game ....moyes never did that.

It is well documented Stones was Martinez's target...the melts round here these days don't want to accept the truth.

 

[kithnou]

Yeah...both finding their way early on...guess you don't have the stomach (something rarely said round here) for it.

Bam!

 

[Goat]

Yeah...both finding their way early on...guess you don't have the stomach (something rarely said round here) for it.

The Everton that Moyes took over was vastly different to the 1 that Martinez took over tho, at least with Moyes you could see progress, currently I see only regression.

Anyway, im personally getting very tired of the Moyes this, Moyes that.

This is all about Everton and its current Manager, who IMO is sadly failing at a very important aspect of his job, winning league games and making us competitive over a 38 game season, I was willing to give him plenty of time, but the mistakes of last season are still happening and are showing no sign of improving.

 

[bluewally]

Let's not forget 17th and 11th in his first four seasons. Patience was once a virtue with this club...seems we won't be havin that any longer.

Never bottom half twice in a row and took over a team in really bad shape and rebuilt it from the back.

Only took bobby one season to undo all that

 

[bluewally]

It is well documented Stones was Martinez's target...the melts round here these days don't want to accept the truth.

No one has denied that.
Stones favoured Everton no biggie.
Happens all the time.

 

[Groucho]

Hopefully he'll find us the FA CUP this season!

Yes hopefully.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Martinez will never be blamed for Mirallas being a pouty little continental Belgian bish in my eyes. Primadonna come to mind with him.

Moyes could handle players with ego. Martinez seemingly can't. He's fallen out with Leighton Baines for goodness sake who is practically a school prefect. Distin Pienaar Mirallas Etoo and Osman all seem/seemed fed up with him. I'd wager that Stones and Lukaku would be if they didn't need the game time to further their careers.

Perhaps that might explain the current lack of leadership in the team? I couldn't see Martinez able to handle teams with the characters of Cahill Gravesen Carsley Stubbs Ferguson Neville Donovan Distin Fellaini Pienaar etc. All those strong characters yet barely a word against Moyes' management in 11 years. That is control through the blend of good man management, discipline, and showing the players your methods get results. Martinez has seemingly displayed none of these qualities which is why we have a horrifically inconsistent team and woeful underperformance.