Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[SerenityNigh]

No, ive said countless times, hes built a superb squad.

The squad building isnt the issue here, IMO that squad is good enough to push for a top 4 place, its certainly better than 12th, thats not even a discussion.

Im just saying, people keep making these excuses, "they arent his players", "wait for transfer windows", in his times had plenty of transfer windows. The players within the squad are all International players, who ALL mostly managed to defend under the last Manager we had.

The players arent the issue, the coaching, the tactics and the lack of motivation from a manager out of his depth are the issues.

Hard for me to argue against that.

 

[Goat]

I count 20, but maybe I'm missing someone obvious. In fairness, he's addressed needs first, and the squad he inherited has plenty of defending options, so he's probably going about it the correct way (in terms of squad building). On match management and strategy he's failed entirely, but I don't think his transfers have been poor.

Did you count Atsu and Traore?

 

[orly]

Goat doing a Brownie here

Even with the extra confidence of his nemesis banned, Damo getting a pasting.

Moshiri will take us to the Post-Fraudo promised land.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Did you count Atsu and Traore?

Only permanent additions: 1 GK, 5 DEF, 4 MF, 10 FWD

 

[rochdaleblue]

Howard is on his way mate. Along with several others.

He cannot sign people outside of a transfer window.

Yes but he has had a number of transfer windows in which to fix the problem and has failed to do so.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

He's had as much as those around him. No more than that. Want to judge him more critically and sack him? Give him amounts that suggest he cant operate under conditions in 'the New Era' of Everton, not a second before.

That's just appropriate and logical.

Those around him (And most of those ahead of him, seeing as he's dragged us down to below their level) never inherited a squad anywhere near as good as the one he did.

He was given a group 1 race contender, capable of putting up a performance at Royal Ascot - now he has trouble winning a claimer on a wet tuesday afternoon at Great Yarmouth with essentially the same animal.

Those players he's bought, you laud as successes. Yet even with them we're lower-mid table. That's not MY definition of success - but you're happy enough with it because you're telling the rest of us we've never had it so good.

There is no sign of improvement. You harp on about people piping down on the next win, but you never, NEVER say the next TWO wins - because even you yourself don't know when we'll put that sequence together, and even if we do it's invariably followed by an abject pitiful performance.

And you tell us we should be giving him more - when he's had what no other Everton manager has had?

Madness.

 

[bluestevon]

Theres been 3 transfer windows in the last 18months.

And we actually already had a keeper he could have used.

Because by all acccounts he spent the best part of the last year and two transfer windows chasing a right winger in Yarmolenko - the one part of the pitch we already had 3 good quality players for in Deulofeu, Lennon and Mirallas...


Actually when you type that out and read it back it's absolutely absurd the amount of time and effort he put into that when we have much bigger areas and problems in the team

 

[roydo]

Because by all acccounts he spent the best part of the last year and two transfer windows chasing a right winger in Yarmolenko - the one part of the pitch we already had 3 good quality players for in Deulofeu, Lennon and Mirallas...


Actually when you type that out and read it back it's absolutely absurd the amount of time and effort he put into that when we have much bigger areas and problems in the team

Was fun mind.

 

[bluestevon]

No, ive said countless times, hes built a superb squad.

The squad building isnt the issue here, IMO that squad is good enough to push for a top 4 place, its certainly better than 12th, thats not even a discussion.

Im just saying, people keep making these excuses, "they arent his players", "wait for transfer windows", in his times had plenty of transfer windows. The players within the squad are all International players, who ALL mostly managed to defend under the last Manager we had.

The players arent the issue, the coaching, the tactics and the lack of motivation from a manager out of his depth are the issues.

The short answer is mate, Martinez has an eye for a good player and can sign some very talented individuals - but he has absolutely no idea how to build a team, it's exactly what things like the rs transfer committee and madrids policy on signing players is and are rightly criticised for being innefective - but this time its the actual manager signing them all, signing players without having any idea how to build a team

take what i said earlier, we had mirallas already - naturally best on the right and one of the more talented players we had and this window signed Lennon, Deulofeu and tried to sign Yarmolenko - all natural right wingers... Meanwhilst we went into the season with basically one right back on the books, and no natural left winger

 

[PhilM]

Howard is on his way mate. Along with several others.

He cannot sign people outside of a transfer window.

Some may argue that barring Howard's significant decline, Martinez already has a proven defence who have previously performed competently.

Baines, Jags, and Coleman have all shown in numerous seasons (under Moyes AND Martinez) that they're arguably more than capable defenders.

Additionally, Oviedo and Stones have also shown their ability under Martinez in previous seasons. The only regular additions are Mori and Robles.

So I would say that the pressing question is not whether we need to buy new players, but rather what has changed with the current bunch?

If you were to edge towards the latter, would it not be fair to question whether it is the approach we take? Or the coaching? Just saying...

 

[bluestevon]

Was fun mind.

Agreed mate and purely from a fan perspective was an exciting thought to get him, but from a manager building a team he should be able to look at the whole and not just grab a load of parts - some of which are the same part and throw them together and hope it makes something useful

Bringing in Del and Lennon and already having mirallas was always going to cause major problems with at least one of them, if we'd have managed to get Yarmolenko as well the mess would have magnified ten fold, bloke doesn't have a clue how to build a team that works

 

[roydo]

Agreed mate and purely from a fan perspective was an exciting thought to get him, but from a manager building a team he should be able to look at the whole and not just grab a load of parts - some of which are the same part and throw them together and hope it makes something useful

Bringing in Del and Lennon and already having mirallas was always going to cause major problems with at least one of them, if we'd have managed to get Yarmolenko as well the mess would have magnified ten fold, bloke doesn't have a clue how to build a team that works

You could argue that Lennon was not #1 target, and might have been mince, hence the loan. GD was/is work in progress, and could get hooked back to Spain any time, so Yarmolenko as a permanent, semi proven, quality player would actually have been pretty shrewd.

Hind sight is ace. But if he had nailed Yarmolenko last summer, then only one of Lennon and GD would be here in all probability.

Or maybe not.

 

[bluestevon]

You could argue that Lennon was not #1 target, and might have been mince, hence the loan. GD was/is work in progress, and could get hooked back to Spain any time, so Yarmolenko as a permanent, semi proven, quality player would actually have been pretty shrewd.

Hind sight is ace. But if he had nailed Yarmolenko last summer, then only one of Lennon and GD would be here in all probability.

Or maybe not.

Think he would have still got them all in mate myself, think Lennon hung on and waited for us as hed been promised a move

 

[FisherEFC]

The short answer is mate, Martinez has an eye for a good player and can sign some very talented individuals - but he has absolutely no idea how to build a team, it's exactly what things like the rs transfer committee and madrids policy on signing players is and are rightly criticised for being innefective - but this time its the actual manager signing them all, signing players without having any idea how to build a team

take what i said earlier, we had mirallas already - naturally best on the right and one of the more talented players we had and this window signed Lennon, Deulofeu and tried to sign Yarmolenko - all natural right wingers... Meanwhilst we went into the season with basically one right back on the books, and no natural left winger

For me this is the concern with allowing him the chequebook in the summer (and the inevitable Lukaku/Stones funds) he seems too similar to Rodgers for me in that scattergun approach.

Then again even if he buys spot on its the inevitable pee poor tactics, game management and defensive problems that will carry on regardless. We really do need to hook him.

 

[bluestevon]

For me this is the concern with allowing him the chequebook in the summer (and the inevitable Lukaku/Stones funds) he seems too similar to Rodgers for me in that scattergun approach.

Then again even if he buys spot on its the inevitable pee poor tactics, game management and defensive problems that will carry on regardless. We really do need to hook him.

Having seen him for long enough up close now - 3 years is enough to judge someone i reckon, he is a footbally dreamer, not a realist, has these grand schemes for what he wants and where he sees his ideas arriving at, but has no idea how to get them their, football at thislevel needs a dose of realism from the manager and he just hasn't got any whatsoever, Moyes as a coutner had too much of it