Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Professor Toffee]

Dunno mate, If Moshiri has been looking at us for the best part of 18 months like apprently he was, then that evaluation time may have been when he was weighing up the purchase, best case scenario we win the cup and the new owner says thanks and good luck to him, strongly believe that Moshiri had exactly his plan for this club set out by the time he entered negotiations, stadium, commercial side, and the personel to take us forward both on and of the pitch - manager included

He's a businessman, he will wait for the FA cup semi aftermath and then move as necessary

 

[bluestevon]

He's a businessman, he will wait for the FA cup semi aftermath and then move as necessary

yup, won't act so as not to disrupt anything until everything that has to be played for has been finished

 

[DrEFC]

All we wanted under Moyes was better football and a cup. We didn't care about the "7th place trophy"

Now we are on course to win a cup... Yet we should sack the manager.

Yeah. Sure. Ok.

pretty simplistic statement that does you no favours.

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

72 points is the record now. It was 65 points with Moyes best ever season.

How Martinez got that out of them in that first season is still amazing. Adapting a CB pairing of Distin and Jagilelka to play football is incredible. Mourinho would have shook his head and walked off laughing if he'd been asked to get that total from Moyes' ex-squad.

But now it's, "he needs to get rid of the whole defence because they're incompetent" but Bobby's still the doggies nuts.

 

[tommye]

He's a businessman, he will wait for the FA cup semi aftermath and then move as necessary

he won't.

Roberto Martinez will be Everton manager until Christmas at the very least. This may not be to your liking, but it's just how it is. Get used to it.

 

[davek]

If we lose any of the next (hopefulyl two games) in the cup mate then like Moyes - Martinez will have shown no indication either he can win one, so far we have not exactly been fantastic in the cups with him have we?
Last season knocked out for i think the first time ever in both cups first games to pretty crap teams, this year bottled a semi (yes we bottled it just like we always did with Moyes) and a semi that we cant judge yet as its not been played, a meh europe run that saw us crash out the first time we played any half decent team int he knockout - choking again, very similar to Moyes european adventures.

I see, it's ok to bring Martinez's non-Everton league form in but you cant register his cup winning season.

Convenient.

You say we should give martinez more time. But your not looking at the reality of the way football is mate, martinez is the third lonest serving manager now in the league

Wenger is the number 1 and despite winnign multiple trophies including two fa cups the last two years is under masive amounts of pressure to go from supporters.
Hughes number 2 longest serving (like 6 days more than Martinez) took over a team that had finished 14th the previous year and had never finished higher than 11th (so 5 consecutive bottom half finishes) - after he took over they finished 9th, then 9th again and currently sit in 8th - so on course for 3 consecutive top half finishes - a clear sign they have improved - also he has done that whilst vastly improvign the style of football they play and reached a QF and a SF in the cup as well - so pretty similar cup form to martinez

The next longest serving after thos three is Pocc at spurs who has been in the job one full year less than Martinez, so in terms of this league mate, only Wenger and Hughes have had more time in the job, one who is surving on past reputation in Wenger, and one who has shown progress in not only style of play but also in results year on year out in Hughes (took over a team on 42 points then got 50 his first season, 54 last season and on target to get around 56/57 this season.

AT any othe club the 'progression' that Martinez has done in terms of taking us backwards would have seen him sacked and those stats support that mate

You make it sound like it's a virtue sacking managers. It's seen as a problem by most, not a matter of course that we should naturally mimic. In any case, isn't that what makes Everton one of those clubs that sticks out: our tendency not to kneejerk? (Not that you'd know at the moment like with fans in full Geordie mode).

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

who ALL mostly managed to defend under the last Manager we had

Too many people seem to forget this. They defended well in Roberto's first season too. He was able to utilise them properly once, why can't he recreate it?

 

[balggy]

There is a good chance the 2016/17 season will start with Roberto Martinez as our manager. If he wins the FA Cup I would say it's nailed on he will stay.

But that in itself doesn't mean he will get the whole of next season. If he is backed in the summer, I would imagine that it would come with a caveat concerning league position.

Whether the target is Champions league I'm not sure, much will depend on how much money he is given. The more money, the greater the expectation. I think Moshiri would expect us to be in the mix for European Qualification through the league.

If we carry this seasons league form into next season and we are well of the pace by Christmas, or probably even earlier, I think a decision would be made to remove him at that point.

 

[davek]

You liked Moyes for longer than 7 years.

And

The league was of a much higher standard at that point, this league constantly had 2 or 3 teams in the SF of the CL now we struggle to get 1 in the QF, yet our squad is better than it ever was and we are 12th. 12th is way below par for this squad, nobody expects CL not one person, it may suit you to say it so you can accuse us of setting him up for a fall, but the truth of the matter is we should be cemented in the top half, positions to you may not matter and myself can actually see your point to a degree as I can't stand the EL or competing in it, but and its a pretty big BUT finishing 6 or 7th means you probably win 15-18 games a season, now to me that's important because winning matches is what it's ALL about, even in a micro environment such as this, GOT is at its best when we win, no doubt about it, you writing off league positions is one thing and it's obvious to all why you do it (That's because without targets it's impossible to fail) but the majority of Evertonians care about us winning and a higher league position is a Bi-product of that.

We have the leagues top striker (more or less) and we are in the position we are in, that probably been said a lot of times, by even myself, but when you think about it, when does that ever happen.

Martinez has a factual record or make EPL teams progressively worse, in terms of league placing. I posted stats of wigan's defence pre-Martinez and during Martinez and they were damning, people will say ''yeah but, he had to sell his best players'' he hasn't had to do that here and baring an impressive final 8 league games our goals conceded tally will go the way of Wigan's. As in each season it gets higher.

The PL elite were much stronger than they are now, that doesn't apply to all other clubs though. There has been a flattening out of hierarchy in this league with all the quality players that English club tv cash can bring in. It is a much more competitive environment than when we were throwing our hats into the ring for the 'best of the rest' pat on the head. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

If you want guarantees about CL challenges now then this Persian is going to have to do what he said on camera and put all his cash at Everton's disposal. There's no jumping the gun and condemning any Everton manager that gets midtable finishes on our current parity spend with other non-elite clubs.

 

[ianefc]

The PL elite were much stronger than they are now, that doesn't apply to all other clubs though. There has been a flattening out of hierarchy in this league with all the quality players that English club tv cash can bring in. It is a much more competitive environment than when we were throwing our hats into the ring for the 'best of the rest' pat on the head. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

If you want guarantees about CL challenges now then this Persian is going to have to do what he said on camera and put all his cash at Everton's disposal. There's no jumping the gun and condemning any Everton manager that gets midtable finishes on our current parity spend with other non-elite clubs.

Dave stop avoiding the questions, we have a better squad than at least 5 teams above us, you could accept one being above us if they were having a 'freak' season but not them all.

Not good enough, you know it, I know it.

 

[davek]

Those around him (And most of those ahead of him, seeing as he's dragged us down to below their level) never inherited a squad anywhere near as good as the one he did.

He was given a group 1 race contender, capable of putting up a performance at Royal Ascot - now he has trouble winning a claimer on a wet tuesday afternoon at Great Yarmouth with essentially the same animal.

Those players he's bought, you laud as successes. Yet even with them we're lower-mid table. That's not MY definition of success - but you're happy enough with it because you're telling the rest of us we've never had it so good.

There is no sign of improvement. You harp on about people piping down on the next win, but you never, NEVER say the next TWO wins - because even you yourself don't know when we'll put that sequence together, and even if we do it's invariably followed by an abject pitiful performance.

And you tell us we should be giving him more - when he's had what no other Everton manager has had?

Madness.

Such is the influx of cash into the Pl in the last two or three seasons what Martinez has spent has meant only that relative to all other clubs we've either just maintained where we were with regard to former activity in the transfer market or even fallen behind.

Martinez has made this squad up with quality cheap bargains like Deulofeu, Besic, Lennon, Mori, Cleverley, Galloway etc. That's what he's had to do to keep pace. The one big fee has been Lukaku and he got that 100% spot on.

There is no way anyone can point the finger at Martinez and state he's had some massive advantage previous Everton manager never had and therefore should be judged more harshly.

An inconvenient truth.

 

[davek]

Dave stop avoiding the questions, we have a better squad than at least 5 teams above us, you could accept one being above us if they were having a 'freak' season but not them all.

Not good enough, you know it, I know it.

The defence is Moyes era for the most part and needs an overhaul. So the squad is a fantastic attacking unit but let down badly by it's defensive unit.

I've stated my views on Baines and Stones. I've stated them on a new GK that puts Robles back on the bench. And Jagielka has to be demoted and the armband taken off him.

None of the leading teams in this league has such a poor defence.

 

[tommye]

None of the leading teams in this league has such a poor defence

The majority of our defence would slip seamlessly into pretty much every side in the league. The individual components are being woefully mismanaged by Bobby. He needs to up his game tbh.

 

[nsno-chris]

Quite remarkable that 3 England internationals, an Ireland international and argentinian internationak are now deemed not good enough for our team.

Obviously not tactics at fault

 

[Slippin Jimmy]

Was fun mind.

He holds the record for the most fun ever had by Evertonians while under his guidance.