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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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Of course there have been positives @oldblue. You said 'the only downside', so I listed some other downsides. Your post was completely lacking the balance you have often mentioned, so I attempted to add some.

I can't 'prove' that players will move to clubs higher up the league, but as I said earlier, it stands to reason. You even hint at it yourself when talking about being 'established'. You mean established as a good team, ie high up the league, not like hull or Wigan or villa. Do you think lukaku and deulofeu would have signed for Martinez at Wigan? I certainly don't, and we know that stones chose not to. That's the same manager, same style of play, established in the league, as it turns out more likely to win a trophy, and yet I think most people would expect them to choose everton over Wigan. Why? Because of league position.
 
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davek said:
No use saying continually it achieved nothing when it now becomes the measure of every Everton team seeking to actually achieve success in this league.

It's like saying to an athlete that their personal best time is useless to them because they didn't win a medal. But the only way to win one is to improve themselves, and that means to improve their own time - then the medals will follow.
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If an athlete finished 2nd with a personal best time then continued to finish 7th and 8th in his/her next races I guarantee the coach would change the training regime, if they continually fail to improve the athlete I guarantee they would be sacked.
 
nsno-chris said:
If an athlete finished 2nd with a personal best time then continued to finish 7th and 8th in his/her next races I guarantee the coach would change the training regime, if they continually fail to improve the athlete I guarantee they would be sacked.
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The coach wouldn't be sacked. The emphasis would be on the athlete not using their talent to improve. Mentally not in the game etc. Time for that athlete to shape or get a job in Sainsbury's.
 
davek said:
The coach wouldn't be sacked. The emphasis would be on the athlete not using their talent to improve. Mentally not in the game etc. Time for that athlete to shape or get a job in Sainsbury's.
Click to expand...

Yes they would, a coach/manager whatever you want to call it is employed, their entire job in fact, to get the best out if that athlete/team...its the entire point if their job. They're not there to cheer from sidelines they are their to identify weaknesses and improve. To take something backwards results in failure.

That's a fact
 

davek said:
...by the way: all things Moyes said when he first came in. In fact, Moyes used to say that there's no reason why we shouldn't win the title. It's not making a rod for your back, it's just the usual stuff any manager coming into Everton has to say. It's not a testament to be thrown at anyone to keep their job when they dont get top 4 or win the league.. That's just daft.

You see: no one can answer that fundamental question of why this feller has to be judged by a criteria hitherto not faced by Everton managers. As said - there is no answer to it. It doesn't exist.
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Can you answer the question as to why Everton as a club should in this current time use a different criteria to judge Martinez than every other premiership club uses?

Ignore who we are mate - if under the same circumstances Martinez had managed and achieved these results with this group of players at any other team around the level we had been at consistantly for a long time when he took over mate - then he would have either been sacked already or else waiting till the end of the season and he would be let go, it's not really a disputable thing even that

As for Moyes - after he stabilised the club away from the relegatiuon fear years, got 4th and then for two years could not build upon that then it was time to move on, he would only have gotten that long due to the utter mess he took over as well
 
davek said:
...by the way: all things Moyes said when he first came in. In fact, Moyes used to say that there's no reason why we shouldn't win the title. It's not making a rod for your back, it's just the usual stuff any manager coming into Everton has to say. It's not a testament to be thrown at anyone to keep their job when they dont get top 4 or win the league.. That's just daft.

You see: no one can answer that fundamental question of why this feller has to be judged by a criteria hitherto not faced by Everton managers. As said - there is no answer to it. It doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Can you answer the question as to why Everton as a club should in this current time use a different criteria to judge Martinez than every other premiership club uses?

Ignore who we are mate - if under the same circumstances Martinez had managed and achieved these results with this group of players at any other team around the level we had been at consistantly for a long time when he took over mate - then he would have either been sacked already or else waiting till the end of the season and he would be let go, it's not really a disputable thing even that

As for Moyes - after he stabilised the club away from the relegatiuon fear years, got 4th and then for two years could not build upon that then it was time to move on, he would only have gotten that long due to the utter mess he took over as well
 
davek said:
...by the way: all things Moyes said when he first came in. In fact, Moyes used to say that there's no reason why we shouldn't win the title. It's not making a rod for your back, it's just the usual stuff any manager coming into Everton has to say. It's not a testament to be thrown at anyone to keep their job when they dont get top 4 or win the league.. That's just daft.

You see: no one can answer that fundamental question of why this feller has to be judged by a criteria hitherto not faced by Everton managers. As said - there is no answer to it. It doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Who is judging him on not getting top 4? The fact we're rapidly going backwards and about to lose all our best players might be the more likely reason mate, just a thought
 

Like Stockholm syndrome with some of our fans, could understand the love In if he had been our manager for 7-10 seasons and was just having a blip ala wenger, but for 2 of the 3 seasons he's been poor for us.
 
FisherEFC said:
Like Stockholm syndrome with some of our fans, could understand the love In if he had been our manager for 7-10 seasons and was just having a blip ala wenger, but for 2 of the 3 seasons he's been poor for us.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but just because you disagree with people doesn't give you the right to infer they have a mental disorder. Truly disrespectful for those who do suffer from mental disabilities.
 
Lanolin said:
Of course there have been positives @oldblue. You said 'the only downside', so I listed some other downsides. Your post was completely lacking the balance you have often mentioned, so I attempted to add some.

I can't 'prove' that players will move to clubs higher up the league, but as I said earlier, it stands to reason. You even hint at it yourself when talking about being 'established'. You mean established as a good team, ie high up the league, not like hull or Wigan or villa. Do you think lukaku and deulofeu would have signed for Martinez at Wigan? I certainly don't, and we know that stones chose not to. That's the same manager, same style of play, established in the league, as it turns out more likely to win a trophy, and yet I think most people would expect them to choose everton over Wigan. Why? Because of league position.
Click to expand...
The downside I mentioned there, in reference to someone who had been positive about the season was about a number of games and related to the end result of our season rather than in depth analysis. Obviously it's a turn of phrase that needs context as I could have listed every aspect of every game I liked but listed a few overall. And I can go through other posts and I've mentioned defensive frailties, lack of leadership, sticking with Howard for too long. But even so it's more of a question of balancing the argument overall. As I'm not reading people saying it's been an unqualified success with a manager who can't be faulted, but I am reading people saying there's been nothing good, that the FA cup is nothing but luck and that fans are deluded for seeing enough to stick with him, I'd say it's an argument that can afford a few exaggerations in the other camp. If losing to Man City is a negative but getting that close to going through is not a positive then what are we left with?
 

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