Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[malcson]

Can anyone explain to me why Martinez gets so many plaudits for his time at Wigan?

Paul Jewell got them promoted and finished 10th then resigned the following season as they narrowly avoided relegation.
Steve Bruce avoided relegation and finished 11th the following season.
Martinez avoided relegation 2 seasons in a row and then saw them relegated.
OK he won the FA Cup but previous managers seemed to see 'narrowly avoiding relegation' as a failure and left, whereas Martinez has seemingly built his reputation on this?
His greatest league achievement was getting Swansea promoted from league 1 to the Championship 2007-2008 season.
Paul Jewell was once a shining star of football management and look where he is now, and would we really want Steve Bruce? So why is Martinez so highly regarded?

A manager who I highly respect and would love to see at Everton although not really a glamour appointment is Sean Dyche from Burnley, what he has achieved at the club is truly astonishing.

 

[davek]

If I'd praised Martinez in the past when things were fine and dandy, I wouldn't have the nerve to go all out to criticise him now...not after such a short period of time. I'd be embarrassed to.

That's just me.

We're preparing for a cup SF in the coming weeks that could open up a door for us into a final where we would be overwhelming favourites. We could secure the biggest prize we've captured since 1995. How can anyone want to rock the boat?

It doesn't make sense.

 

[deipnosophist]

Or he's looked at us and decided he sees progress beneath the surface and won't interfere with managerial decisions for awhile. Can't help but feel he's not come here thinking it's his job to change the philosophy of the side. He agrees with that I'd assume or he'd taken his investment elsewhere.
But it's interesting that people have worked out that he's studied the club and decided to invest despite thinking the manager is incompetent and there being a board in place who appears to support him

@davek propounds the new Board isn't given to the "fanciful notion" of managerial performance review...I disagree.

I glean, from the tenor of your post, that you disagree with me??

Fair enough my friend.

But if you invested over 100million in a business, wouldn't you subject your managers to regular review?

I wouldn't consider such review process as "fanciful notion"....would you?

 

[Ashtonian]

Can anyone explain to me why Martinez gets so many plaudits for his time at Wigan?

Paul Jewell got them promoted and finished 10th then resigned the following season as they narrowly avoided relegation.
Steve Bruce avoided relegation and finished 11th the following season.
Martinez avoided relegation 2 seasons in a row and then saw them relegated.
OK he won the FA Cup but previous managers seemed to see 'narrowly avoiding relegation' as a failure and left, whereas Martinez has seemingly built his reputation on this?
His greatest league achievement was getting Swansea promoted from league 1 to the Championship 2007-2008 season.
Paul Jewell was once a shining star of football management and look where he is now, and would we really want Steve Bruce? So why is Martinez so highly regarded?

A manager who I highly respect and would love to see at Everton although not really a glamour appointment is Sean Dyche from Burnley, what he has achieved at the club is truly astonishing.

I think MArtinez for all those who offer backing for him are just hoping he comes good. On the surface he has many capabilities, including attacking football. but the fact that his wigan tactics are no different to these tactics and largely the same results (considering how many games lukaku wins for us with his goals alone) and as a result the same league form. One day it may click for him, one day he might replace his backroom staff and they do half the job for him, but personally i don't want to wait around for him to do that.

 

[oldblue]

@davek propounds the new Board isn't given to the "fanciful notion" of managerial performance review...I disagree.

I glean, from the tenor of your post, that you disagree with me??

Fair enough my friend.

But if you invested over 100million in a business, wouldn't you subject your managers to regular review?

I wouldn't consider such review process as "fanciful notion"....would you?

I agree he'll have reviewed the manager as he would have every aspect of the club before investing. I think it's a leap to assume he's reviewed the club and has decided he's still monitoring the managerial situation any more closely than any member of the board would be.
I think we can assume he likes what he's seen at the club. I'm only guessing, but that may include changes being made by the manager that aren't obvious in terms of our current results.
I think he's as aware of the rest of us that potential means nothing without results on the pitch. Don't see any evidence this will mean a change in any particular timescale

 

[Ashtonian]

If I'd praised Martinez in the past when things were fine and dandy, I wouldn't have the nerve to go all out to criticise him now...not after such a short period of time. I'd be embarrassed to.

That's just me.

We're preparing for a cup SF in the coming weeks that could open up a door for us into a final where we would be overwhelming favourites. We could secure the biggest prize we've captured since 1995. How can anyone want to rock the boat?

It doesn't make sense.

Short space of time mate yeah, only 2 years. I mean Leicester went from championship to premier league champs potentially in 2 years, Bournemouth went from 10th in the championship to equal with us in 2 years. Watford 13th and two years a point behind us, Wigan went down again and only just looking like coming back to championship in two years, Vardy went from nowhere to record breaker, Harry kane came from nowhere to a top striker.

I could continue here, i mean only 2 years, such a short space of time....

 

[Ashtonian]

Here is a thought.

A manager who plays great attacking football with some great players. Has won the FA cup in recent history and yet the fans are calling for his head, and want him to go. Mainly because things aren't improving and the fans can see that and want a new manager to get better results with the team that was assembled there.


Oh no not everton, it's in fact ARSENAL that are doing that. And they have won the magical FA cup trophy, twice in fact recently yet the fans don't see that as an amazing thing because it is the manager holding the team back.........

 

[deipnosophist]

I agree he'll have reviewed the manager as he would have every aspect of the club before investing. I think it's a leap to assume he's reviewed the club and has decided he's still monitoring the managerial situation any more closely than any member of the board would be.
I think we can assume he likes what he's seen at the club. I'm only guessing but that may include changes being made by the manager that aren't obvious in terms of our current results.
I think he's as aware of the rest of us that potential means nothing without results on the pitch. Don't see any evidence this will mean a change in any particular timescale

I think we are on different planes here mate. My recent postings have been in rebuttal of a certain poster's notion that Board reviews of management performance (and possible change) are "fanciful". I do not think this is the case at all...do you?

 

[quasi modo]

He's brought in Mori, introduced Cleverley, given Barry a key role, introduced Lennon, finally dropped Howard.
All decisions you may not agree with but I'd argue were designed to tighten us up.

He never dropped Howard, he kept playing him until he got an injury, should have not come back in the team after his injury last season.
Mori although he has done well, is new to the Premier League and should sit out based on recent form. Will he drop? Have to wait and see.
Barry a crucial role yes but relying on a 35/36 year old? It's ridiculous.
Lennon has been great since his return to the team, but Cleverley has had no impact and often when he plays on the left we look like we have no shape and width.
So for the changes he made it has hardly had the desired effect, which lies solely with the manager.

 

[oldblue]

I think we are on different planes here mate. My recent postings have been in rebuttal of a certain poster's notion that Board reviews of management performance (and possible change) are "fanciful". I do not think this is the case at all...do you?

I think he'll have been constantly reviewing the situation before investing but barring drastic scenarios I can imagine he probably won't be doing it again for awhile.
I apologise if I dipped into this without understanding context

 

[MikeH72]

Can anyone explain to me why Martinez gets so many plaudits for his time at Wigan?

Paul Jewell got them promoted and finished 10th then resigned the following season as they narrowly avoided relegation.
Steve Bruce avoided relegation and finished 11th the following season.
Martinez avoided relegation 2 seasons in a row and then saw them relegated.
OK he won the FA Cup but previous managers seemed to see 'narrowly avoiding relegation' as a failure and left, whereas Martinez has seemingly built his reputation on this?
His greatest league achievement was getting Swansea promoted from league 1 to the Championship 2007-2008 season.
Paul Jewell was once a shining star of football management and look where he is now, and would we really want Steve Bruce? So why is Martinez so highly regarded?

A manager who I highly respect and would love to see at Everton although not really a glamour appointment is Sean Dyche from Burnley, what he has achieved at the club is truly astonishing.

Yeah but don't forget mate he had to slash the wage bill by about 250% despite only selling one big player, and had them playing dead nice football (when they weren't getting beat 9-1 and 8-0 like)

 

[oldblue]

He never dropped Howard, he kept playing him until he got an injury, should have not come back in the team after his injury last season.
Mori although he has done well, is new to the Premier League and should sit out based on recent form. Will he drop? Have to wait and see.
Barry a crucial role yes but relying on a 35/36 year old? It's ridiculous.
Lennon has been great since his return to the team, but Cleverley has had no impact and often when he plays on the left we look like we have no shape and width.
So for the changes he made it has hardly had the desired effect, which lies solely with the manager.

Well that's all open to debate but you asked if I think he's capable of trying to tighten up and that's why they were mentioned.

 

[nsno-chris]

We were discussing one game and whether luck can play a part.
We've played great football at times. We need to tighten up at home. Don't need excuses just as people don't need to deny any context to results

But not that often; anyway, results come first and we have won 4 at home.

We are not here so every now and then a pundit can priase for our passing every now and then

 

[Jags]

where are the other 30% with me in the IN camp?

You can't say Moyes etc would have done better with this squad, save the best managers in the world, Martinez is as good as anyone at building the squad.

Maybe it's because I was born the year after we last won a pot, but to me, if he wins a pot, he joins Cahill and just about Big Dunc as the Everton greats I've seen. Moyes had 9 pops at that (give or take).

 

[oldblue]

We are not here so every now and then a pundit can priase for our passing every now and then

Nope but we do turn up hoping to see great football