Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Goat]

Ha Ha Ha.

I deal in facts and figures; you deal in fachts and schmigures.

They both spent the money very well, theres really no need for the propaganda.

 

[davek]

Didn't you say 5th place was worthless the other day?

Yes. It is. Utterly worthless. But then again I'm not the one obsessing about a league position in the top half of the table. Others seem to cherish a top 7 finish. It's what it was worth when Moyes got it and it will remain so.

 

[davek]

They both spent the money very well, theres really no need for the propaganda.

A point I made the other day, but this all started with someone here saying "Martinez has had gizillions lad and he's blown it lad, lad, lad...eh lad".

 

[davek]

You really don't though - you deal in spin and stubbornness.

I think the words you're searching for are loyalty and consistency. Have a go at that yourself. You might like it.

 

[RaleighBlue]

We had just lost our manager to one of the biggest clubs in the world. I think our shortlist was very poor, we could have attracted much better.
I think it was a lazy list by the board. Blinded by an FA cup win and going unbeaten in Portugal if we believe that Vitor was the other one. Surely there was better somewhere else in the world.

Who was available that would not have been a risk and would have come to us?

It's not like there were loads of top quality proven Prem managers willing to work on our budget. At all. Let alone ones that weren't employed, or are willing to leave their current employment for us.

 

[davek]

We had just lost our manager to one of the biggest clubs in the world. I think our shortlist was very poor, we could have attracted much better.
I think it was a lazy list by the board. Blinded by an FA cup win and going unbeaten in Portugal if we believe that Vitor was the other one. Surely there was better somewhere else in the world.

I tell you something mate: there was a lot of concern over who could keep the plate spinning after Moyes left that summer. If you''d have told Evertonians then that his successor would come in and in his first season put a record 72 points and 5th spot on the table and that in season two we'd finish 11th, and that by season three the quality of football would surpass anything we've seen since the 80s, though the current table position hadn't shifted, they'd have accepted that in a great big hurry.

We'll see where we are at the end of the season position wise. But back in the summer of 2013 when Moyes frigged off most would have snatched your hand off for two top half finishes in three seasons.

Lest we forget.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Why last 7 seasons? Does going beyond that dilute the 'message'?

"Funded like relegation fodder". In the seven seasons you mention he had a gross spend of £90M.

Moyes spent all he sold and had a net spend of £16M on top while he was here.

Going beyond it takes it back to another lifetime. If ya wanna add another 2 years on its 11th, 4th doesn't change much. That's back in the days he took us from actual possible relegtion.

Stop using net infront of things it distorts the truth but I guess your the artist. Moyes created all that wealth from nothing. And it still has positive nock on effects to this day fellaini, jelly, Naismith etc.

But the fact remains that was epic praise for Moyes. It took some expectation lowering from you to pull it off, I necessarily wouldn't praise him like that myself but power to you.

 

[davek]

Going beyond it takes it back to another lifetime. If ya wanna add another 2 years on its 11th, 4th doesn't change much. That's back in the days he took us from actual possible relegtion.

Stop using net infront of things it distorts the truth but I guess your the artist. Moyes created all that wealth from nothing. And it still has positive nock on effects to this day fellaini, jelly, Naismith etc.

But the fact remains that was epic praise for Moyes. It took some expectation lowering from you to pull it off, I necessarily wouldn't praise him like that myself but power to you.

Oh, 11th place? Fancy that eh?

 

[Tubey]

I think the words you're searching for are loyalty and consistency. Have a go at that yourself. You might like it.

It'd be loyalty if you set expectations and you felt the manager had met them, thus earning your continued support.

What you do instead is move the goalposts to continue to fit your argument, as otherwise you'd have to accept you were wrong about Martinez - and being wrong on the internet is something you're seemingly incapable of admitting to.

Last season, you said Martinez "needed" to finish closer to the top five, and last season was a blip. Now, you're attempting to change the goalposts and paint 8th as fine as long as we have pointless cup runs.

Next season, if we finished 12th, you'd move the goalposts again and try to spin that as a positive.

Basically, I can't take anything you say seriously anymore. On the plus side, you are hilarious. Deffo one of the best personas on GOT. That's something I guess.

 

[davek]

It'd be loyalty if you set expectations and you felt the manager had met them, thus earning your continued support.

What you do instead is move the goalposts to continue to fit your argument, as otherwise you'd have to accept you were wrong about Martinez - and being wrong on the internet is something you're seemingly incapable of admitting to.

But I palpably wasnt wrong about the manager. How have I been wrong? He's took us on to another level football wise. There's no direct agricultural nonsense anymore. We play football as befits this club's traditions. He's also put together a very good squad in 2 and a half seasons since being here. He's done that with a couple of big spends but mostly astute purchases and he's brought the age of the realistic first team and bench right down. He's set a club PL points record, just missed out on a cup final thanks to inept officiating and has us in our third season still handily placed for a decent top half finish.

Now how in all that ^^^ does that make me or anyone else who supports this manager "wrong"?

I think what we're really seeing here is loathsome levels of entitlement rather than anything logical as an assessment of this man since he's been here.

Last season, you said Martinez "needed" to finish closer to the top five, and last season was a blip. Now, you're attempting to change the goalposts and paint 8th as fine as long as we have pointless cup runs.

Next season, if we finished 12th, you'd move the goalposts again and try to spin that as a positive.

Basically, I can't take anything you say seriously anymore. On the plus side, you are hilarious. Deffo one of the best personas on GOT. That's something I guess.

That's just drivel from start to finish. A ridiculous piece of petulant character assassination meted out just because you cant coherently argue your own case and sustain it. Well done.

 

[Tubey]

But I palpably wasnt wrong about the manager. How have I been wrong? He's took us on to another level football wise.

Oh he certainly has. Offensively and defensively.

Apparently the art of defending isn't part of football though.

As for the rest of your post, you did say it and I don't need to make my own case; Martinez's results over the last two seasons do it for me. I'd only bother discussing it in detail with you further if I took you seriously, but as it is, I don't, and I'd be talking to a brick wall.

Indeed, after typing this, I'm wondering why the hell I am typing this!

Enjoy your pig-headedness sir.

 

[davek]

Oh he certainly has. Offensively and defensively.

Apparently the art of defending isn't part of football though.

As for the rest of your post, you did say it and I don't need to make my own case; Martinez's results over the last two seasons do it for me. I'd only bother discussing it in detail with you further if I took you seriously, but as it is, I don't, and I'd be talking to a brick wall.

Indeed, after typing this, I'm wondering why the hell I am typing this!

Enjoy your pig-headedness sir.

Great.

Please place me on ignore.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Oh, 11th place? Fancy that eh?

I think we do have a great team I hope Martinez can get it right I hope he does. We play great attacking football but that's only half of it. The argument is there that it's more exciting and entertaining. I tell ye as an Evertonian a solid 1 nill win excited me and thrilled me a million times more than a 3-3 or 4-3 loss ever could. You'll say he will will get it right but that's anybodies guess it's just speculation it's not fact. You are banking on imaginary future outcomes. I think.it's possible Martinez can furniture around put I can't really use it as an argument

My main gripe is you are stonchly against Moyes in everyway and you are the polar opposite this way about Martinez. But there are contradictions on this way of argument. You are giving Martinez all the breaks and you don't give Moyes the steam of your piss.

 

[moyes cardy]

But I palpably wasnt wrong about the manager. How have I been wrong? He's took us on to another level football wise. There's no direct agricultural nonsense anymore. We play football as befits this club's traditions. He's also put together a very good squad in 2 and a half seasons since being here. He's done that with a couple of big spends but mostly astute purchases and he's brought the age of the realistic first team and bench right down. He's set a club PL points record, just missed out on a cup final thanks to inept officiating and has us in our third season still handily placed for a decent top half finish.

Now how in all that ^^^ does that make me or anyone else who supports this manager "wrong"?

I think what we're really seeing here is loathsome levels of entitlement rather than anything logical as an assessment of this man since he's been here.






That's just drivel from start to finish. A ridiculous piece of petulant character assassination meted out just because you cant coherently argue your own case and sustain it. Well done.

There is a fair discussion on both sides. Without question the squad and football has improved the frustration is that we should be doing a lot better re position backed up by some horrific stats etc. But..we should perhaps give more time to see if the potential he built can be realised.

 

[Tubey]

There is a fair discussion on both sides. Without question the squad and football has improved the frustration is that we should be doing a lot better re position backed up by some horrific stats etc. But..we should perhaps give more time to see if the potential he built can be realised.

Attacking has improved with the style of play - but defensively we've regressed massively over the last three years. And defending is an equal part of the art of football.

My issue is that certain people are incapable of admitting Martinez has performed very poorly for two seasons now. You can point to encouraging signs, sure, but I get bemused when these people just ignore how bad Martinez has managed this squad in terms of pure results.